The Tiger Woods/PED Thread

[9iron]

Really?  You cannot tell the difference between the poll cited in the article, which was a poll of pro golfers and an internet poll of whoever, who just read an article implying that Tiger did PEDs?  The numbers in the poll cited in the article (the pro golfers) is not UP TO 59%.  It is two separate groups.  And you might want to look up the concept of a push poll to see the validity of any poll which is preceded by a statement designed to push people in a particular direction.

I saw the distinction. The headline and lead sentance didn't exactly match what came after, but since you mention it let us lay it out more precisely.

24% of Tour Players at the time the article was written believed Tiger may have done PED's

59% of golfers believe Tiger may have done PED's

[dsc123]

I saw the distinction. The headline and lead sentance didn't exactly match what came after, but since you mention it let us lay it out more precisely.  24% of Tour Players at the time the article was written believed Tiger may have done PED's 59% of golfers believe Tiger may have done PED's

I'm reasonably certain that the second part is wrong. the number of people who think he "may" have used peds is closer to 100%. There's a big difference bbetween maybe and probably.

[9iron]

I'm reasonably certain that the second part is wrong. the number of people who think he "may" have used peds is closer to 100%. There's a big difference bbetween maybe and probably.

I was being charitable. The question was whether or not golfers thought he used them. 59% responded yes. The point being that the number of people who believe he may have, or actually did, use them can be a LOT higher depending on where that question is asked.

TST = 21%

Huffpo = 59%

[treebound]

I saw the distinction. The headline and lead sentance didn't exactly match what came after, but since you mention it let us lay it out more precisely.

24% of Tour Players at the time the article was written believed Tiger may have done PED's

59% of golfers believe Tiger may have done PED's

I think this should be edited to read:

"24% of Tour Players who were polled, at the time the article was written, answered that they believed Tiger may have done PED's". I don't believe that 100% of Tour Players answered the poll, therefore one can't apply the poll to all Tour Players.

I also find it interesting that currently 78% of the people who answered this thread's poll believe that Tiger did not use PED's or break rules.

Okay, I'm out of this thread, have fun.

[turtleback]

I saw the distinction. The headline and lead sentance didn't exactly match what came after, but since you mention it let us lay it out more precisely.

24% of Tour Players at the time the article was written believed Tiger may have done PED's

59% of golfers believe Tiger may have done PED's

How about if we try the real truth.  If you did in fact see the distinction then it makes your original point even more dishonest, since you made no such distinction in your post but intentionally tried to make it seem as the 59% was simply a later version of the 24%*.  But you didn't distort this because you intensely dislike Tiger.

And in your latest you are still distorting (lying, really).

24% of 71 pga pros who responded to a poll believed he used peds.  (71 players are not "Tour Players") - the sure sign of a weak point is when you are compelled to puff it and try to make it say ore than it actually does.

59% of people who anonymously responded to a poll right after reading a piece implying that Tiger did peds believe he did.  I am curious why you say 59% of GOLFERS?  Do you actually think that online poll qualified the people who responded as golfers.  Oh, they couldn't and therefore didn't?   - the sure sign of a weak point is when you are compelled to puff it and try to make it say more than it really does.

So your statement was pure BS tinged with a heavy dose of dishonesty.

But that's OK, we knew it all along.

* No other way to read: " It is ironic that the head line of that huffpo article (written years ago) says that 24% of golfers believe that Tiger used PED's, but the current poll result shows the number who believe it is up to a whopping 59%. That is a majority now. This flies in the face of those here who are ridiculing us for the belief it is possible. "

[9iron]

How about if we try the real truth.  If you did in fact see the distinction then it makes your original point even more dishonest, since you made no such distinction in your post but intentionally tried to make it seem as the 59% was simply a later version of the 24%*.  But you didn't distort this because you intensely dislike Tiger.

Please. You are playing word games. I am not trying to misrepresent anything here. I know you are going to play word games. I know you are going to dissect. It is what you do. Any attempt to mislead would be easily recognized.

24% of Tour Players polled when article was written said they thought he used PED's

59% of golfers who were polled felt he used PED's

21% out of a whole 64 voters here at TST "believe" he may have used PED's

People are not stupid. They know that results vary depending on who or where the question is asked. Or even how the question is asked. No one is being dishonest, so that claim is specious even for you, turtleback.

[9iron]

I saw the distinction. The headline and lead sentance didn't exactly match what came after, but since you mention it let us lay it out more precisely.

24% of Tour Players at the time the article was written believed Tiger may have done PED's

59% of golfers believe Tiger may have done PED's

I think this should be edited to read:

"24% of Tour Players who were polled, at the time the article was written, answered that they believed Tiger may have done PED's". I don't believe that 100% of Tour Players answered the poll, therefore one can't apply the poll to all Tour Players.

I also find it interesting that currently 78% of the people who answered this thread's poll believe that Tiger did not use PED's or break rules.

Okay, I'm out of this thread, have fun.

Distinction noted.

[iacas]

Please. You are playing word games.

You would know, right…?

I am not trying to misrepresent anything here.

You may not be trying to, but you did and continue to do so:

59% of golfers who were polled felt he used PED's

A prime example of your misrepresentation right there. That poll doesn't preclude non-golfers from voting.

One small final point: the article does not say "tour players." It says "professional golfers." They could have asked a bunch of PGA pros or USGTF guys or whatever. Continuing to say "tour players" when it wasn't said (that I saw) is further misrepresenting things as it implies that Tiger's peers were surveyed.

[9iron]

You would know, right…?

You may not be trying to, but you did and continue to do so:

A prime example of your misrepresentation right there. That poll doesn't preclude non-golfers from voting.

Wordsmithing at its finest Erik. The entire point is that what goes for gospel truth here doesn't fly elsewhere, and I believe that has been born out. You can word smith all you want, but it doesn't change anything. And my feelings aren't hurt either. Not by you or your little lackies.

[turtleback]

Please. You are playing word games. I am not trying to misrepresent anything here. I know you are going to play word games. I know you are going to dissect. It is what you do. Any attempt to mislead would be easily recognized.

24% of Tour Players said they thought he used PED's

59% of golfers who were polled felt he used PED's

21% out of a whole 64 voters here at TST "believe" he may have used PED's

People are not stupid. They know that results vary depending on who or where the question is asked. No one is being dishonest, so that claim is specious even for you, turtleback.

You did say one correct thing - people are not stupid and that is why almost all of them understand that you dislike Tiger intensely and will use any distortion to further that dislike.

And it is YOU that is playing word games.  71 Tour players responded to the poll.  24% of 71 players is 17 players.  How many Tour Players are there?  At least the top 125 plus another 25-50 who have some kind of restricted status?  Have you looked AT ALL how the poll was conducted?  Was it 71 players at random or were they all polled and only 71 responded?  But you have no problem stating and repeating your bogus statement.  O wait, it wasn't even a poll, it was a survey - a completely different animal.

And again you continue to have no clue about polls when you say "59% of golfer who were polled".  First of all you have no idea if the people who responded to the HuffPo poll were golfers, so there is one distortion.  Secondly they were not polled they self-selected themselves to respond to a poll. Again, this has been pointed out to you and you just double down.  Finally, the "poll" was tainted by being preceded by an article implying he used steroids - classic push-poll.

You try to make the original surveyl say more than it does (implying that 24% of 71 guys is really 24% of all tour players).

You try to make the second poll say more than it does (it does not represent an increase in the 24% - despite your "up to" - it does not consist of golfers - and it is not a percent of people polled it is a percent pf people who responded to an online push poll.)

Don't even bother trying to twist and turn your way out of it - everyone knows what you did and they know that it was motivated by your intense dislike of Tiger.

Edited to add:  Ooops, I guess you did fool me a little with your distortions - I believed it was tour players based on your statements but now I see the article said no such thing (surprise!).  I tried to pull up the original article to see the details of the survey (NOT poll) but the link was dead.

Thank you, Erik, for catching that .

Faithfully yours,

Your lackey

[Golfingdad]

21% out of a whole 64 voters here at TST "believe" he may have used PED's

And another word game ... this is not remotely what the poll says.

If the question were worded "Do you believe Tiger may have used PEDs?" then the 'yes' clan would be a heck of a lot higher - and it would include me.

But it doesn't say that, it says "Do you believe Tiger VIOLATED RULES AND TOOK PEDs."

There are no ifs, ands, buts, or "mays" about it.  A yes vote in this thread is a "Yes, he took PEDs," not a "Yes, he may have taken PEDs."

[3putter]

Distinction noted.

Dude, take your time, vet your sources, and actually comprehend what you're reading. Don't put a conclusion before the argument, because a good argument will effortlessly lead the audience to the right conclusion.

P.S. Understand the question posed in the thread poll as well.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9iron

21% out of a whole 64 voters here at TST "believe" he may have used PED's

And another word game ... this is not remotely what the poll says.

If the question were worded "Do you believe Tiger may have used PEDs?" then the 'yes' clan would be a heck of a lot higher - and it would include me.

But it doesn't say that, it says "Do you believe Tiger VIOLATED RULES AND TOOK PEDs."

There are no ifs, ands, buts, or "mays" about it.  A yes vote in this thread is a "Yes, he took PEDs," not a "Yes, he may have taken PEDs."

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9iron

Distinction noted.

Dude, take your time, vet your sources, and actually comprehend what you're reading. Don't put a conclusion before the argument, because a good argument will effortlessly lead the audience to the right conclusion.

P.S. Understand the question posed in the thread poll as well.

I firmly believe that AT LEAST SOME of the 14 people who answered "yes" in the poll did not stop to think exactly what the poll question stated and queried.

(I'm sure this will lead to more controversy, and I apologize in advance for that.)

[iacas]

Wordsmithing at its finest Erik.

I've wordsmithed nothing, and I'm confident in anyone of slightly below average intelligence reading this thread and seeing that, particularly compared to the many ways in which you've manipulated or been careless with your word choices. Or how you flat out ignored the many times people said it was possible but not likely enough for them to vote yes.

The entire point is that what goes for gospel truth here doesn't fly elsewhere, and I believe that has been born out.

That doesn't make any sense. No such thing has been demonstrated let alone proven. If you're referring to the poll, uhhhh, you keep saying "golfers" and even said "Tour" players when neither of those things have been true. So… yeah. Good luck with that.

And my feelings aren't hurt either. Not by you or your little lackies.

Name calling now eh? Mature.

Hey, @9iron , how about you add your name to your signature? Man up.

[jbishop15]

My favorite thing about this forum is how when people get called out for being wrong or manipulating things or whatever they resort to accusing everyone of being a stooge for iacas or mvmac or the site in general.

But back on topic:

I understand the impulse to believe someone took performance-enhancing drugs; Tiger is a muscular guy, he's dominated for so long, whatever. I just don't think the evidence backs up the suspicion. The biggest thing against it for me is that we've heard nary of a whisper of it since he came onto the Tour near-twenty years ago. After his scandal with Elin, and all of those women coming out to accuse him, I just can't even imagine anyone who would've known about the steroid thing wouldn't have leaked it for major cash. Too many people are involved with Tiger Woods for that stuff never come out.

[dkolo]

I thought the "Bill Murray is a narcissist" thread was stupid and filled with unsubstantiated speculation and insecurity projection, but this one goes to another level. We should start a "Did Bill Murray take PEDs?" thread and really get the nonsense out of our system.

[RFKFREAK]

I thought the "Bill Murray is a narcissist" thread was stupid and filled with unsubstantiated speculation and insecurity projection, but this one goes to another level. We should start a "Did Bill Murray take PEDs?" thread and really get the nonsense out of our system.

Good idea...except I doubt the nonsense will ever get out out of our system.

[Lihu]

I thought the "Bill Murray is a narcissist" thread was stupid and filled with unsubstantiated speculation and insecurity projection, but this one goes to another level. We should start a "Did Bill Murray take PEDs?" thread and really get the nonsense out of our system.

Given that his act generally entails the persona of someone who has either smoked a couple joints or drunk and entire liter of cough syrup, I would say that those two items are PEDs for his field of expertise.