Is or should there be artificial turf golf courses? (re: California drought)

[rkim291968]

California drought and its effect on golf courses got me thinking (uh-oh).   Is or should there be artificial turf golf course?   Not only it'd save water but also obsolete divots, reduce maintenance crew, starve gophers out of the courses, etc..   Any other pros, cons, opinions, flames, etc?

[Abu3baid]

California drought and its effect on golf courses got me thinking (uh-oh).   Is or should there be artificial turf golf course?   Not only it'd save water but also obsolete divots, reduce maintenance crew, starve gophers out of the courses, etc..   Any other pros, cons, opinions, flames, etc?

There are a couple all sand courses in KSA. The greens are not kept well, but I heard they can be putt on.. Basically there is a line deciding the fairway and the rough, if you hit the ball in the fairway you can use a special rug you carry around, if you are in the rough you can use the rug but have to take a penalty stroke.. Something like that I'm not sure, I was told about it when I first got here, and I never had the interest to go try. A little different obviously from an all synthetic golf course, but I can imagine this would be considered golf about as much as the sand golf course I described above.. Just wouldn't work IMO.

[mcanadiens]

I've never been to California, but, around here, playing on plastic grass in the middle of August sounds like a sort of torture.

It would be sort of entertaining to see balls bounce on old-fashioned Astroturf. Trade the mowers in for vacuum cleaners.

[RussUK]

I've never been to California, but, around here, playing on plastic grass in the middle of August sounds like a sort of torture.

It would be sort of entertaining to see balls bounce on old-fashioned Astroturf. Trade the mowers in for vacuum cleaners.

Was going to say the same thing about vacuum cleaners

they would have to be either cordless or Dyson will have to invent a sit on Vac. Would the ground staff be coming round telling you to lift your feet so they can vac under them?

Playabillity wise i think it would be dreadful. Id had to play a great approach to watch it bounce 20 yards passed the green

[Judah Ben-Hur]

Hey, its California.  It will fit in well with the silicon lifestyle.  Divot repair tools and sand bottles can be replaced with mini vacs, scrubber brushes, and scrubby bubbles to get those pesky tobacco juice stains off the pristine Astroturf.

[jsgolfer]

I would hope not, I don't think I could take an entire 18 hole round of not taking divots.  For those of us that attack the ball with the downswing, it would kill my arms and shoulders bouncing off the turf all day.

[Lihu]

California drought and its effect on golf courses got me thinking (uh-oh).   Is or should there be artificial turf golf course?   Not only it'd save water but also obsolete divots, reduce maintenance crew, starve gophers out of the courses, etc..   Any other pros, cons, opinions, flames, etc?

This combined with more natural landscape and trees wouldn't be too bad. I like the idea. Yet, I agree with other posters about divots. It woul be kind of painful, and I'm sure I'll figure out a way to take divots nonetheless. :-( One of my neighbors has artificial grass, I wonder if I could practice on his lawn?:-P

[HanNL]

I would hope not, I don't think I could take an entire 18 hole round of not taking divots.  For those of us that attack the ball with the downswing, it would kill my arms and shoulders bouncing off the turf all day.

Everyone attacks the ball with the downswing iirc :).

There are several kinds of artificial grass around, there must be a kind of grass that gives a bit (also depends on the surface below the grass). I would stipulate that playing 18 holes on artificial grass is no worse than practicing on mats.

Maybe they could make the greens real grass, that would definitely save a lot of water.

[jsgolfer]

Everyone attacks the ball with the downswing iirc :).

There are several kinds of artificial grass around, there must be a kind of grass that gives a bit (also depends on the surface below the grass). I would stipulate that playing 18 holes on artificial grass is no worse than practicing on mats.

Maybe they could make the greens real grass, that would definitely save a lot of water.

I disagree, I see lots of players sweep the ball with all of their clubs and almost never take divots.

I hate practicing on mats.  Hurts the arms and shoulders if on it too long.

[vasaribm]

How much of the course is turf?  If the entire course, 150-200 acres of turf will be ALOT of money and would outweigh any water usage cost/penalties.  I think a good experiment would be to covert a few fairways or even less, a 50-60 yard common "landing area" in each fairway.

[Patch]

I don't think artificial turf would hold up well while being baked in the desert sun 9-10 months out of the year. Some places out here get up to 14 hours of sun, per day, during the summer months. Along with burning up, there would probably be a stretching, wrinkling problem too. Especially if they allowed carts on it. Then again,  perhaps technology has come up with synthetics that are sun, and wrinkle  resistant. Golf club resistant might be another matter.

I once saw a golf course in the planning process that had a artificial tee box on each hole. Par 3s were forced carries over native/natural growth to the grass green, regardless of length. Par 4s & 5s had forced carries over native/natural growth areas, with grass landing areas at various areas depending on the length of the hole. All the greens were made up with real grass. The course had lots of waste bunkers that ran along the sides of various fairways. I remember one of the major talking points was the 6800 yard course had a savings of 75% non grass, and maintained areas. All they had to water, cut, and otherwise maintain was 25% of the total course area. That 25% area that needed to be watered also used an effective water reclaim system. This in turn was a saving of several million gallons of water each year compared to an equivalent all grass course.

It would not surprise me to see  newer courses, and some older courses caught in the drought stricken areas that might go to layouts like this to save water. You don't need 100% grass covered golf courses to play golf.

I once golfed at a 9 hole course that had no grass at all. The greens were oiled sand/clay that rolled something like 15 on the meter. The fairways were native,  desert vegetation. The green fee was $5, and you could play as many holes as you wanted per day. Your $5 also rented you a 12" X 12" piece of synthetic turf to hit off of while on the tee box, and/or in the native fairways. The place was out in the middle of no where in the Nevada desert, and was used mostly by the mining employees that worked near by.

[Keith White]

California drought and its effect on golf courses got me thinking (uh-oh).   Is or should there be artificial turf golf course?   Not only it'd save water but also obsolete divots, reduce maintenance crew, starve gophers out of the courses, etc..   Any other pros, cons, opinions, flames, etc?

Hmm, I guess if it's cost viable they could have a place.  You couldn't travel well if artificial was your regular course as the difference would be so hard to adjust to.  Short term the upkeep would be minimal but would you end up with new patches in greater worn areas and a course that over time looks like a badly repaired highway ?

[DrvFrShow]

I used to live in California and lived through the 1977 drought where the reservoirs were at their current levels. The only difference is that there are more people now. The problem there isn't golf courses. Given the number of acres dedicated to golf vs the number of acres dedicated to front and back lawns and inefficient agriculture, going over to astro turf would hardly make a dent. California could save tons of water by changing its agricultural practices to something more suitable for an arid climate using drip type irrigation. Also HOAs need to allow things like low maintenance front yards. However this costs money and brings in things beginning with the word P. Fresh water is going to be a problem long term.

[rkim291968]

I like most of your suggestions on starting small, converting some areas into no-water-needed areas.   Maybe (and hopefully), some golf courses are already thinking this way to combat water shortage.

I played indoor soccer for 7 years.  They had simulated turfs that you can bicycle kick and get up without broken bones.   I think it will give on divot making shots.   Also my range has "cushy" mat that one can take divot making shots without obliterating their hands and arms.

The water shortage in CA is real and here to stay b/c of climate change & population growth.   Population continues to grow but I have not seen any new reservoir projects (can take forever to get it approved even if they start now).

[Dave2512]

Newer courses here started using no water, minimal maintenance native areas in the designs years ago. Some are pretty quirky if they have gunch cutting through fairways. A few come to mind that have multiple landing areas on par 5's. You hit over native stuff from the tee and again for the second shot. Here it's not real pretty. The native areas are high prairie, which looks like your average field of weeds. That crap is a bear to play from. But courses like this can present a problem for the unrealistic. If you have to carry 180 yards of reeds and scrub to hit grass you need to be on the right tees.

[dkolo]

Newer courses here started using no water, minimal maintenance native areas in the designs years ago. Some are pretty quirky if they have gunch cutting through fairways. A few come to mind that have multiple landing areas on par 5's. You hit over native stuff from the tee and again for the second shot. Here it's not real pretty. The native areas are high prairie, which looks like your average field of weeds. That crap is a bear to play from. But courses like this can present a problem for the unrealistic. If you have to carry 180 yards of reeds and scrub to hit grass you need to be on the right tees.

Think of the rollout you'll get from the baked out fairways. It'll be like playing the British Open every day, but without pot bunkers everywhere!

[Dave2512]

Think of the rollout you'll get from the baked out fairways. It'll be like playing the British Open every day, but without pot bunkers everywhere!

It's not a fun way to play. I was in Grand Junction CO last week, high desert, just 9" of rain a year. Played with a couple that said they only had snow on the ground three times all winter. The courses looked like Death Valley. Dry cracked ground that was dirt cart path hard. Worst golf I  have played in years.

[DrvFrShow]

And one thing about playing on turf vs grass in the sun. Think heat. It will not be low maintenance either. Turf will break down under UV.