Baltimore protests

[Abu3baid]

It seems like there have been a few of these this year/past year.

This one escalated rather quickly though didn't it?

"Freddie Gray died of severe spinal injury while in police custody"

Quote:

Some 2,000 National Guardsmen and more than 1,000 police officers from across Maryland and neighboring states were assigned to the streets of Baltimore on Tuesday night, Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan said.

"This combined force will not tolerate violence or looting, which has led to the destruction of property and put innocent Marylanders at risk."

Quote:

Federal Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms arson investigators are aiding local authorities in investigating 60 fires — 10 structure fires like a CVS and a nursing home construction site, the others vehicles — in Baltimore on Monday night.

A little about the victim & how he died

Quote:

Court records show he was arrested more than a dozen times, and had a handful of convictions, mostly on charges of selling or possessing heroin or marijuana. His longest stint behind bars was about two years.

Quote:

Video shot by a civilian bystander shows officers dragging Gray, who appeared limp, after he was handcuffed. Officials say he was able to climb into the back of a police van.

It appears to me that it is a case of him getting the %$#$ beat out of him while they were restraining him.

In the end, even if we are not talking about an upstanding citizen, and while admitting that I don't know what he did to deserve the beating he took (if he did at all), the police didn't follow proper procedure of calling an ambulance to the scene of the arrest ect..

It is a tragic situation, but the people are going to far with this car burning, and theft and destruction of property.. How is any of this going to be productive??

What are your thoughts?

[billchao]

@Abu3baid , you should link to your sources when you quote articles.

[Abu3baid]

@Abu3baid, you should link to your sources when you quote articles.

sure thing Bill.. I got them from several different articles, but here are all of them

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/28/us/baltimore-riots/

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/28/politics/obama-baltimore-violent-protests/index.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2015/04/28/a-freddie-gray-primer-who-was-he-how-did-he-why-is-there-so-much-anger/

hope that helps.

[Abu3baid]

This mother didn't take well to seeing her son throwing rocks at police.

[newtogolf]

There are bad cops out there just as there are bad politicians, bad mechanics, bad accountants, etc.  Thousands of cops do heroic things every day that get recorded on video and the media mostly chooses to ignore because positive police stories don't generate ratings the way bad cops videos do.

Do cops target minorities, probably, it's a chicken and egg situation.  In major inner cities minorities commit the majority of the crimes simply based on demographics, so they are more likely to be suspicious of minorities, especially those who are repeat offenders.   I have a few a few friends and family members that are cops, they all admit that cops have always given criminals a beating for resisting arrest, regardless of skin color so this isn't anything new.  The difference is everyone has a video cam in their phones so these events are more frequently recorded and the media won't ever pass up an opportunity to exploit it.

I 100% believe in and support the right to peaceful protest but what I see in Baltimore is rioting, looting, arson and thuggery.  These thugs out there aren't fighting for Freddie Gray, they just want an opportunity to destroy things, get free stuff and hurt people with minimal chances of getting arrested given Baltimore's idiot for a mayor basically endorsed their right to "destroy" the city.

Regardless of your skin color the best way to avoid being a victim of police brutality is to comply with their requests.  Don't run, don't resist arrest don't be disrespectful and don't try to fight them and you'll likely not get hurt.

[RussUK]

I have a lot of respect for the police as they have one of the toughest jobs in the world. Whatever they do there will always be someone saying it was wrong or discrimiatory.

The police here in the UK cant do anything without it being scrutinised. I have a family member who is a Sergeant in the Met Police and he says there is so much red tape that they often think twice about arresting someone. He says there are also parts of many cities where they are advised not to enter due to the attitude towards police.

I can just bout hear my dad saying when he was a lad in the 50's the police gave you a clip round the ear and told your mum and you never got in toruble again!

[Shindig]

Please let me know if I'm completely off base here. I've long since burned out from hearing allegations of police abuse. It seems every case that I end up following turns out to be a violent criminal, usually one that also attacks police officers and/or endangers innocent civilians in an attempt to evade arrest (or worse). I haven't followed the Baltimore case, other than to watch the video about it that Ray Lewis posted on the Facebook. I don't doubt that there are police that abuse their power, and I don't doubt that there are police that act in racist ways. Maybe one of these days, a national story will revolve around something like this happening to an innocent victim. You'd think that a story about that happening would be a big deal. In the meantime, I remember one case from over twenty years ago where a violent criminal, out on parole and driving drunk, evaded police for a long high-speed chase. I found it hard to have sympathy for him when he got hurt. This happened in Los Angeles, so of course lots of people expressed their outrage by getting a great discount on a new stereo or television set. A few months ago, a young adult robbed a store, attacked a police officer a few minutes later, and met his maker. I wonder how many people who have found themselves on the wrong side of a police beating would still be alive and healthy if they had taken the following video's advice to heart (n.b., adult language): [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR465HoCWFQ[/VIDEO]

[Phil McGleno]

[VIDEO]http://youtu.be/QR465HoCWFQ[/VIDEO] Good buddy of mine shared that video with us today. I wonder how many times I have been his white friend? Joking-He is a great dude.

[Jeremie Boop]

It seems like there have been a few of these this year/past year.

This one escalated rather quickly though didn't it?

"Freddie Gray died of severe spinal injury while in police custody"

A little about the victim & how he died

It appears to me that it is a case of him getting the %$#$ beat out of him while they were restraining him.

In the end, even if we are not talking about an upstanding citizen, and while admitting that I don't know what he did to deserve the beating he took (if he did at all), the police didn't follow proper procedure of calling an ambulance to the scene of the arrest ect..

It is a tragic situation, but the people are going to far with this car burning, and theft and destruction of property.. How is any of this going to be productive??

What are your thoughts?

Here's what I think happened. When they had his hands and legs shackled they "forgot" to buckle him in the back of the van. As they drove they "accidentally" drove in such a way that caused him to get tossed about in the back. During this time he landed against the edge of the bench in the back causing the spine injury. Do I think what happened is wrong?  Absolutely. Do I think that people have a right to be upset that the man didn't get medical attention when he needed it? Absolutely. Do I think what the violent protesters/rioters did is acceptable or even understandable? Absolutely not. Attacking the police, burning cars, looting, burning buildings, etc is never justifiable. We constantly are told, don't judge by the minority who are doing wrong, and I agree with that. I don't judge people based on anything besides my interactions with that individual. However, so many people are making blanket statements about groups due to these recent news stories. People see the rioting and make blanket statements about blacks, people make blanket statements about police, people make blanket statements about whites, etc etc. That is what makes me the most angry about these things, that all it does is cause such hatred and division among us that it overshadows the need to come together as a people to resolve these issues.

[rehmwa]

My understanding is he was injured the day before.  Then the neglect of the cops (and perhaps purposeful aggravation by doing a 'drive around') finished off the damage.

This is much like the guy that was knelt on and couldn't breathe and eventually died (he had asthma, weight issues, etc)

Whatever necessary level of force is needed to get a person into custody is likely warranted.

HOWEVER...

I don't care what a guy did, or how bad he is, or how hard it was to get him cuffed and subdued..... once he is in custody , (once he is helpless and dependent upon his captors), then his well being is the absolute responsibility of the cops.  It's analogous to starving someone that's in a cage.

Roughness during an arrest is a necessary evil for some criminals.

Roughness AFTER the arrest is abuse and not right in any way shape or form.  Cops that do this are not 'real' cops in my book, while acting this way they are sad little boys/bullies.

[Golfingdad]

There are bad cops out there just as there are bad politicians, bad mechanics, bad accountants, etc.  Thousands of cops do heroic things every day that get recorded on video and the media mostly chooses to ignore because positive police stories don't generate ratings the way bad cops videos do.

Do cops target minorities, probably, it's a chicken and egg situation.  In major inner cities minorities commit the majority of the crimes simply based on demographics, so they are more likely to be suspicious of minorities, especially those who are repeat offenders.   I have a few a few friends and family members that are cops, they all admit that cops have always given criminals a beating for resisting arrest, regardless of skin color so this isn't anything new.  The difference is everyone has a video cam in their phones so these events are more frequently recorded and the media won't ever pass up an opportunity to exploit it.

I 100% believe in and support the right to peaceful protest but what I see in Baltimore is rioting, looting, arson and thuggery.  These thugs out there aren't fighting for Freddie Gray, they just want an opportunity to destroy things, get free stuff and hurt people with minimal chances of getting arrested given Baltimore's idiot for a mayor basically endorsed their right to "destroy" the city.

Regardless of your skin color the best way to avoid being a victim of police brutality is to comply with their requests.  Don't run, don't resist arrest don't be disrespectful and don't try to fight them and you'll likely not get hurt.

I'm amused by your double standard here.  (Emphasis all mine to point out what I'm talking about.)  It's easy for you to point out that only the "bad apple" cops are the ones on video but not recognize that the exact same thing is occuring with the rioters over the protesters?

If you look around, btw, there is actually A LOT of peaceful protests going on, and various other "non-rioting."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/28/baltimore-protests-peaceful/26510645/

[newtogolf]

I'm amused by your double standard here.  (Emphasis all mine to point out what I'm talking about.)  It's easy for you to point out that only the "bad apple" cops are the ones on video but not recognize that the exact same thing is occuring with the rioters over the protesters?

If you look around, btw, there is actually A LOT of peaceful protests going on, and various other "non-rioting."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/28/baltimore-protests-peaceful/26510645/

I thought I was pretty clear in stating I support peaceful protesting and stated I was addressing the thugs and their behavior.   No double standard, scum is scum regardless of race or occupation.

[Golfingdad]

I thought I was pretty clear in stating I support peaceful protesting and stated I was addressing the thugs and their behavior.   No double standard, scum is scum regardless of race or occupation.

Yes, you were very clear there.  But you weren't clear in acknowledging that the rioters are a small minority - "bad apples" if you will - of whats actually going on.  Just like the abusive police are a small minority of the overall police force.

You pointed out simply "what I see," which without further explanation implies that that is all you see, and I was trying to get you to see that that is not anywhere near the whole story.

If you're going to focus on the good cops instead of the abusive ones, then you should focus on the good citizens and not the stupid ones.  You know what I mean?

[newtogolf]

Yes, you were very clear there.  But you weren't clear in acknowledging that the rioters are a small minority - "bad apples" if you will - of whats actually going on.  Just like the abusive police are a small minority of the overall police force.

You pointed out simply "what I see," which without further explanation implies that that is all you see, and I was trying to get you to see that that is not anywhere near the whole story.

If you're going to focus on the good cops instead of the abusive ones, then you should focus on the good citizens and not the stupid ones.  You know what I mean?

No because I don't think I focused on good cops.  I said if people don't want to be victims of police brutality they 1) shouldn't break the law.  2) If confronted by a LEO they should be respectful and comply with the officers requests and not resist arrest.

[Golfingdad]

No because I don't think I focused on good cops.  I said if people don't want to be victims of police brutality they 1) shouldn't break the law.  2) If confronted by a LEO they should be respectful and comply with the officers requests and not resist arrest.

OK, I believe you.  But in the paragraphs I quoted and bolded, I took it differently than you apparently intended:

There are bad cops out there just as there are bad politicians, bad mechanics, bad accountants, etc.  Thousands of cops do heroic things every day that get recorded on video and the media mostly chooses to ignore because positive police stories don't generate ratings the way bad cops videos do.

I 100% believe in and support the right to peaceful protest but what I see in Baltimore is rioting, looting, arson and thuggery.

These phrases are formed the same way.   "I realize thing 'A' to be true, HOWEVER, don't forget about about thing 'B'."  When I read phrases like that, I get the impression that "thing b" is the important part to the writer.  Good cops were your "thing B" in the first statement and "rioting thugs" were your thing B in the second.

That's why I got the impression you were directing your focus that way.

(Not arguing - just explaining my rationale.)

---

The other half of my statement was trying to point out how you acknowledge that media ignores all of the good cops on video without acknowledging that perhaps that's exactly what they're doing for the citizens.  You see more rioting and fires because that's news.  People going around NOT setting fires is not news.

[Ernest Jones]

No because I don't think I focused on good cops.  I said if people don't want to be victims of police brutality they 1) shouldn't break the law.  2) If confronted by a LEO they should be respectful and comply with the officers requests and not resist arrest.

What if they are confronted by a VIRGO? We tend to be much more complex.

[newtogolf]

What if they are confronted by a VIRGO? We tend to be much more complex.

LOL maybe but GEMINI's are the worst.

[newtogolf]

OK, I believe you.  But in the paragraphs I quoted and bolded, I took it differently than you apparently intended:

These phrases are formed the same way.   "I realize thing 'A' to be true, HOWEVER, don't forget about about thing 'B'."  When I read phrases like that, I get the impression that "thing b" is the important part to the writer.  Good cops were your "thing B" in the first statement and "rioting thugs" were your thing B in the second.

That's why I got the impression you were directing your focus that way.

(Not arguing - just explaining my rationale.)

The other half of my statement was trying to point out how you acknowledge that media ignores all of the good cops on video without acknowledging that perhaps that's exactly what they're doing for the citizens.  You see more rioting and fires because that's news.  People going around NOT setting fires is not news.

I agree, but they did show protesters forming a wall to prevent the rioters from attacking the police and the mother who beat the hell out of her kid for participating in the riots.