Are there too many rules in golf?

[isukgolf]

That fundamental is the whole basis of the game.  For 400 years, that has been what drives the game of golf.  Change that principle and you don't have golf any more.  I'm interested in playing golf, not some some game that isn't golf which was invented just for the sake of what you call simplification.  That's like taking baseball and eliminating 2nd and 3rd base.  You can play it with a ball and bat, but it ain't gonna be baseball.

I know better than to get into this conversation ... But in regards to rules and baseball ... In college for example ... aluminum bat vs wooden ... designated hitter ... In recreational golf, what harm is an anchored putter when the professional rules change?

[newtogolf]

I know better than to get into this conversation ...

But in regards to rules and baseball ...

In college for example ... aluminum bat vs wooden ... designated hitter ...

In recreational golf, what harm is an anchored putter when the professional rules change?

There is no harm, as long as you're not playing in a tournament or for handicap there's nothing that requires you follow any of the rules.  If you want to implement mulligans, gimme putts and foot wedges it's all okay with most golf golfers.  The problem is some golfers want it both ways, they want to play by a different set of rules but want to be acknowledged for their scores as if they played by the official rules.

[iacas]

In college for example ... aluminum bat vs wooden ... designated hitter ...

Those don't fundamentally change the nature of the game.

[ColinL]

In recreational golf, what harm is an anchored putter when the professional rules change?

Just a reminder that there is one set of rules for all of us from top professional to amateur hacker.

[turtleback]

I agree with you.  What I'm proposing is that the "principle of playing the ball as it lies" is flawed.  Change that founding principle and it's possible to simply the rules drastically and still retain the core concept of golf.

Try for a moment to open your mind completely and not be bound by the current rules of golf.  Let's say you have all the elements of golf without any rules.  You have golf clubs, golf balls and a golf course with holes, greens, hazards, and tee boxes.  You are given the task of creating a game with these elements.  Don't you think it's possible to create a simple game that's fair and easily understood?

Let us know as soon as you get these new rules written so we can look them over.

Everyone thinks it would be easy to do, yet no one seems to actually want to do it.

The rules seem complicated because they have to deal with reality, not fantasy.

[Golf Grouch]

That fundamental is the whole basis of the game.  For 400 years, that has been what drives the game of golf.  Change that principle and you don't have golf any more.  I'm interested in playing golf, not some some game that isn't golf which was invented just for the sake of what you call simplification.  That's like taking baseball and eliminating 2nd and 3rd base.  You can play it with a ball and bat, but it ain't gonna be baseball.

But what is golf?  According to the R&A; "it is a game in which a player, using a club, tries to hit a small, round ball into a small, round hole in as few shots as possible."

The only point I'm trying to make is that I think it's very possible to devise a game that fits this description with a set of logical and simple rules that could be drastically different from the current rules of golf.

[wadesworld]

The only point I'm trying to make is that I think it's very possible to devise a game that fits this description with a set of logical and simple rules that could be drastically different from the current rules of golf.

Go for it.  Let's see those proposed rules.

[ColinL]

But what is golf?  According to the R&A; "it is a game in which a player, using a club, tries to hit a small, round ball into a small, round hole in as few shots as possible."

The only point I'm trying to make is that I think it's very possible to devise a game that fits this description with a set of logical and simple rules that could be drastically different from the current rules of golf.

You really shouldn't use quotation marks unless you are quoting verbatim what has been written.   The game is actually described (at least in my rule book) thus:

The Game of Golf consists of playing a ball with a club from the teeing ground into the hole by a stroke or successive strokes in accordance with the Rules .

You should note the words in italics, which in the rule book means there is a Definitiion of that word.  Already, then, in that brief description there are 4 words that need rules just to be precise as to what they mean.  There are also another two - ball and club - which have to have clear specifications so that we don't each play with a peculiar implement

We simply do not have any sport that has evolved without rules.  The rules of golf have evolved over several centuries and  everything we have  now is the result of something happening that needa a rule to ensure that everyone who  plays the game knows how to proceed and that everyone proceeds in the same way.  If proceeding under your as yet unwritten rules resulted in something drastically different, that's fine. Go ahead with your new game but it might not be right to call it golf.

[Golf Grouch]

You really shouldn't use quotation marks unless you are quoting verbatim what has been written...

I agree.  That's why I copy and pasted the text directly from the R&A; website.

[Asheville]

Grouch golf's 9 Rules

1) Any number of clubs of any make and form.
2) Use any ball you want.
3) No restrictions on using training aids whatsoever.
4) Take as many practice strokes as you like.
5) Unlimited do-overs, for free. Ball lost or OB, drop in a nice spot, for free.
6) If you don’t like where your ball is, just move it to a nice patch of grass, for free.
7) Fix anything you like anywhere on (or off) the golf course.
8) If you land in a bunker just toss it out, for free.
9) You don’t have to putt out.

You're welcome, Grouch.

[newtogolf]

Grouch golf's 9 Rules

1) Any number of clubs of any make and form.

2) Use any ball you want.

3) No restrictions on using training aids whatsoever.

4) Take as many practice strokes as you like.

5) Unlimited do-overs, for free. Ball lost or OB, drop in a nice spot, for free.

6) If you don’t like where your ball is, just move it to a nice patch of grass, for free.

7) Fix anything you like anywhere on (or off) the golf course.

8) If you land in a bunker just toss it out, for free.

9) You don’t have to putt out.

You're welcome, Grouch.

The best part is that Grouch could go out and play these rules any day he wants to.  We could even simplify them down to one rule to make them easier to remember;

1. The only rule in Grouch Golf is there are no rules.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

That fundamental is the whole basis of the game.  For 400 years, that has been what drives the game of golf.  Change that principle and you don't have golf any more.  I'm interested in playing golf, not some some game that isn't golf which was invented just for the sake of what you call simplification.  That's like taking baseball and eliminating 2nd and 3rd base.  You can play it with a ball and bat, but it ain't gonna be baseball.

But what is golf?  According to the R&A; "it is a game in which a player, using a club, tries to hit a small, round ball into a small, round hole in as few shots as possible."

The only point I'm trying to make is that I think it's very possible to devise a game that fits this description with a set of logical and simple rules that could be drastically different from the current rules of golf.

At it's most basic level. . .

R&A; Homepage:

Playing Golf

Roughly 60 million people worldwide play golf, making it one of the most widely played sports in the world. At its most basic level, it is a game in which a player, using a club, tries to hit a small, round ball into a small, round hole in as few shots as possible.

With players standing side-on to the target, play begins with a shot struck from the teeing ground using one of up to 14 clubs, selected according to the distance the player wishes to hit the ball.

There are a number of different formats of play ranging from Match Play, where one or two players compete against another one or two opponents, through to Stroke Play, in which the competitive field is limited only by the number of hours in the day. There are, of course, many other enjoyable competitive formats which are used the world over.

It is one of only a few sports which is not played on a standardised playing surface; one of few sports where a 59-year-old can continue to compete on an equal footing with players less than half their age; and, thanks to a handicapping system, one of few sports where players of varying abilities can compete evenly against each other.

If you have a driving range nearby, they will often have clubs available for you to borrow, so why not have a go?

What you state is true, but it is difficult to play golf with someone in another region or country without a comprehensive standardized set of rules. . .

[ColinL]

I agree.  That's why I copy and pasted the text directly from the R&A; website.

Ouch and apologies.  I hadn't spotted that description!

For the purpose of defining the game as opposed to just describing it, I reckon we are better using the text in the Rules including the referenced definitions and equipment specifications to  preserve the integrity of the game.

A primary value of the rules is that they allow you to proceed with your game whatever happens and to know that anyone else in the same competition has to do the same if faced with the same situation, thereby making the game fair all round.

I think we are all waiting excitedly for your new rules but I hope they preserve both the nature of the game as currently defined and the value of guiding us as to how to proceed through  our game in the same way as everyone else.

[turtleback]

Grouch golf's 9 Rules

1) Any number of clubs of any make and form.

2) Use any ball you want.

3) No restrictions on using training aids whatsoever.

4) Take as many practice strokes as you like.

5) Unlimited do-overs, for free. Ball lost or OB, drop in a nice spot, for free.

6) If you don’t like where your ball is, just move it to a nice patch of grass, for free.

7) Fix anything you like anywhere on (or off) the golf course.

8) If you land in a bunker just toss it out, for free.

9) You don’t have to putt out.

You're welcome, Grouch.

Or the simplified version:  Don't even bother going to a course or hitting a ball.  Just get a scorecard and write down any numbers you want to.

Maybe the difference is that most of us regard golf as a game while others view it as an activity.  The former implies rules of some sort while the later is pretty free form.  Like skiing is generally an activity rather than a game.

Hmm, moment of insight.  I wonder if this is one of the reasons that our most prominent skier, here, is also our most prominent rules complainers?

[saevel25]

The one thing I never got was the one club-length drop versus two-club length drops. The easy way to remember is any shot that ended up with a penalty is a two club-lengths drop. Any drop that for free relief is one club-length drop. I just don't get why not make it all two club-lengths and be done with it.

I guess if they want to consider two club-lengths that much of an advantage on free relief.

[Fourputt]

The one thing I never got was the one club-length drop versus two-club length drops. The easy way to remember is any shot that ended up with a penalty is a two club-lengths drop. Any drop that for free relief is one club-length drop. I just don't get why not make it all two club-lengths and be done with it.

I guess if they want to consider two club-lengths that much of an advantage on free relief.

The reason is because when taking a penalty drop you don't get to work from a point of complete relief.  You are either working from the point where the ball last crossed into the hazard (Rule 26) or from the spot where the ball lies (Rule 28).  They give a little more space for you to find a spot to drop, since it's costing you a stroke for the privilege of removing the ball from an unplayable situation.

When taking relief without penalty, you start from a point of complete relief from the condition, so one additional clublength is all one should require.

[No Mulligans]

The one thing I never got was the one club-length drop versus two-club length drops. The easy way to remember is any shot that ended up with a penalty is a two club-lengths drop. Any drop that for free relief is one club-length drop. I just don't get why not make it all two club-lengths and be done with it.

I guess if they want to consider two club-lengths that much of an advantage on free relief.

How about 2 club lengths from nearest relief, no closer to the hole, at any time for any reason with a 2 stroke penalty. Otherwise, play it as it lies.  That would simplify and eliminate a lot of rules.

[saevel25]

How about 2 club lengths from nearest relief, no closer to the hole, at any time for any reason with a 2 stroke penalty.  That would simplify and eliminate a lot of rules.

Nope, that makes no sense at all.

The reason is because when taking a penalty drop you don't get to work from a point of complete relief.  You are either working from the point where the ball last crossed into the hazard (Rule 26) or from the spot where the ball lies (Rule 28).  They give a little more space for you to find a spot to drop, since it's costing you a stroke for the privilege of removing the ball from an unplayable situation.

When taking relief without penalty, you start from a point of complete relief from the condition, so one additional clublength is all one should require.

That makes more sense. I was wondering if it was more to do because you already had a penalty so two club-lengths is less penal than one club-length relief from a non-penalty situation.