Separating Good Players and Beginners

[huck344]

I have two different groups of friends that I golf with on a regular basis.  The first group are all experienced golfers with handicaps that range in the mid to high single digits.  We normally play from the blues or the tips depending on the course.  I'm an 11.9 and can keep up with them.

The other group of friends that I golf with are basically all beginners who shoot in the 110-130 range.  I don't mind golfing with them because they are my friends and I think it is important to teach new golfers about course etiquette, something that is grossly overlooked when people learn to play golf.

My dilemma is this.  In a couple of weeks, myself, my beginner friends and our families have family vacations scheduled for Palm Springs (about 90 minutes from where we all live).  Through a personal connection, I am able to get us a fantastic rate (75% discount) at a very good course.  Including myself, there are 5 of us, so I have invited 3 from my advanced player group to join us so that we have 2 foursomes.

I have decided to pair up the group of advance players and myself in one group and the 4 beginners in the second group.  The advanced players have no problem with this and would prefer to play together as we usually have several wagers going.  However, a couple of the guys that are beginners think that we are being snobs that don't want to play with them, despite the fact that I play with them a couple times a month.  The 4 beginners are all good friends.  The 3 advance players are all good friends.  Obviously, I'm friends with both groups.

I honestly don't think I'm being a dick by pairing the advanced players together and the beginners together.  But somehow, I went from being the man for getting the rate to being the snob.  What do you all think?

[mdl]

I think you're fine. I can understand some frustration from the beginner friends. It's always good for your game, and just fun, to play with people who are way better than you are. So I could see them being disappointed that they're going to play this fancy, expensive course with a group of 8 with 3 advanced players they never get to play with, and they're still not going to get to play with them. But I think that's where it should end, disappointment. You arranged it, you got the deal, and you like to play with and wager with your single digit friends. It's lame for them to give you anything more than a friendly jab motivated by disappointment they won't get to play with the single digit guys.

[sjduffers]

That. Or see if you get another round going, perhaps just 9 holes, and mix it up: 2 good players with 2 not so good...

[huck344]

Thanks for your input Matt.  My first reaction was to tell them to stop being such babies, but then I really tried to see it from all sides.

[bkuehn1952]

I would put the two "best" beginners with the two most patient "good" players.  You and the least patient "good" player take the other two "beginners." Everyone plays their own ball .  Give the "beginners" 2-3 shots a hole.  Play a 2 man team game - best net ball per team.  Make sure the "beginners" understand that once the "good" player records a par and they are 7 or 8 already, they pickup.

Getting 2-3 shots (be LIBERAL with the handicaps) will give the lesser players a chance to contribute a net best ball now and then.  If they have a blow-up hole they pickup.  Everyone gets to play with new people and make new friends.

Frankly the way you have it arranged smacks of showing preference to the "good" players or trying to segregate one group from the other.  To me, a sign of a "good" player is one who can play with anyone, enjoy the company, maybe dispense a little wisdom or course management advice.  If playing with a beginner drags someone down or lessens the enjoyment, the problem is with the "good" player.

[SavvySwede]

Pairing people of similar ability makes the most sense. The round just flows better when a group is hitting into similar landing areas and getting to the green in the same number of strokes. I'm also assuming these two groups of friends don't overlap much? If they all know each other it would be easier to mix it up but it doesn't seem like they do based on your original post.

[acetoolguy]

Are they really upset? or just busting chops...as I would most certainly do if I were in that situation with a friend.

High handicappers can get involved in the wagering with a team or individual quota type of game.

[rob0225]

Tell them to quit being so butt hurt and play golf with people within their own skill level.  There are more important things in life.

[Yukari]

I can't believe they would actually complain. If so, tell them to book their own friggin tee time. On a serious note, however, if it's more than one round, I would tell everyone before the first round that the top two players from each group will be playing together and that the bottom two from each group will be playing together in round two. This will give them something to shoot for. Alternatively, you can mix the groups from the start but have the higher HCI players play from forward tees. Have them draw "straws" for seeding.

[RayG]

IMHO, you ARE being a bit snobbish. This is a getaway vacation for EVERYONE. Being subject to a caste that wouldn't happen normally makes them feel a bit belittled. Unfortunately you've already 'assigned groups', but you could have had a blind draw to mix things up. Players get to meet new people and hopefully have some FUN... I repeat: FUN Who knows, maybe a new group would have formed that didn't like YOU in their little clique and you would be tossed aside.

[MrDC]

Only one round? tough spot, I can see both sides, good players want to play some serious golf on a special course and not mix with beginners, totally understand, but it is a trip for everyone to have fun, I have no advice because I just don't see an easy answer, two rounds would be great.

[David in FL]

Not snobbish. Smart. Unless they're all good friends who already play together, mixing them together will likely result in frustration and ultimately less fun for all. Make sure you put the faster group (whichever one it is) out first too....

[RiddleMeThis]

Smart choice.  Initial thought was to split talent between 2 teams and play a little 4 man scramble. But with that large of a gap in skill, it might not be the best idea.  Just a thought..

[jetsknicks1]

I have two different groups of friends that I golf with on a regular basis.  The first group are all experienced golfers with handicaps that range in the mid to high single digits.  We normally play from the blues or the tips depending on the course.  I'm an 11.9 and can keep up with them. The other group of friends that I golf with are basically all beginners who shoot in the 110-130 range.  I don't mind golfing with them because they are my friends and I think it is important to teach new golfers about course etiquette, something that is grossly overlooked when people learn to play golf. My dilemma is this.  In a couple of weeks, myself, my beginner friends and our families have family vacations scheduled for Palm Springs (about 90 minutes from where we all live).  Through a personal connection, I am able to get us a fantastic rate (75% discount) at a very good course.  Including myself, there are 5 of us, so I have invited 3 from my advanced player group to join us so that we have 2 foursomes. I have decided to pair up the group of advance players and myself in one group and the 4 beginners in the second group.  The advanced players have no problem with this and would prefer to play together as we usually have several wagers going.  However, a couple of the guys that are beginners think that we are being snobs that don't want to play with them, despite the fact that I play with them a couple times a month.  The 4 beginners are all good friends.  The 3 advance players are all good friends.  Obviously, I'm friends with both groups.   I honestly don't think I'm being a dick by pairing the advanced players together and the beginners together.  But somehow, I went from being the man for getting the rate to being the snob.  What do you all think?

You're in kind of a tough spot, I've put together several golf outings for groups of 8-16 golfers, with HC's ranging all over the place and pairings can get sticky because of some mitigating factors. What kind of guys are the good golfers? By that I mean do you think they would get frustrated playing with guys who are not as good and will most likely hold them up a bit? What kind of guys are the not so good golfers? Would they feel pressure trying to keep up and would they be willing to pick up if they're holding the others up? I can see the frustration directed at you by the high HCers because after all, they are the ones going on vacation with you but once at the course they probably feel like you don't want them in your group because they're not as good. Either way, I feel for ya buddy lol, it's not always easy putting these things together.

[turtleback]

I have two different groups of friends that I golf with on a regular basis.  The first group are all experienced golfers with handicaps that range in the mid to high single digits.  We normally play from the blues or the tips depending on the course.  I'm an 11.9 and can keep up with them.

The other group of friends that I golf with are basically all beginners who shoot in the 110-130 range.  I don't mind golfing with them because they are my friends and I think it is important to teach new golfers about course etiquette, something that is grossly overlooked when people learn to play golf.

My dilemma is this.  In a couple of weeks, myself, my beginner friends and our families have family vacations scheduled for Palm Springs (about 90 minutes from where we all live).  Through a personal connection, I am able to get us a fantastic rate (75% discount) at a very good course.  Including myself, there are 5 of us, so I have invited 3 from my advanced player group to join us so that we have 2 foursomes.

I have decided to pair up the group of advance players and myself in one group and the 4 beginners in the second group.  The advanced players have no problem with this and would prefer to play together as we usually have several wagers going.  However, a couple of the guys that are beginners think that we are being snobs that don't want to play with them, despite the fact that I play with them a couple times a month.  The 4 beginners are all good friends.  The 3 advance players are all good friends.  Obviously, I'm friends with both groups.

I honestly don't think I'm being a dick by pairing the advanced players together and the beginners together.  But somehow, I went from being the man for getting the rate to being the snob.  What do you all think?

IF you are being a dick, and I'm not necessarily saying that you are, it has nothing to do with the quality of the players but the fact that you are abandoning the people you came with in order to play with the cooler kids.  IMO that is not cool at all.  You have a family vacation with a bunch of people and have a special golf round planned and you abandon your group because it will be more fun for you to play with the other guys.  How could you NOT expect some hurt feelings?

I think most of the responders missed the fact that these guys are not part of the vacation group but just coming for the special rate.

It is a vacation activity.  It is probably one of, if not THE, highlights of the vacation.  And you cared enough about these people to even go on a family vacation with them.  And then you turn around and snub them.  From their perspective you are abandoning your own vacation group to play with the outsiders.

Even in High School we learn that if you have 2 sets of mutually exclusive friends and are seen to choose one over the other you will hurt feelings.  IMO the complaints are couched in terms of "snobs" because they are not revealing the real problem.  The real problem is snubbery not snobbery, IMO.  You go with your group on a vacation together and then snub them for one of the highlight activities by picking the other group of friends.  I don't care who the better golfers are, but if someone did that to me the nature of our friendship would change.

And getting a great price for the golf has nothing to do with it.  Getting your friends a good deal does not make snubbing them OK, in my book.

[mdl]

It is a vacation activity.  It is probably one of, if not THE, highlights of the vacation.  And you cared enough about these people to even go on a family vacation with them.  And then you turn around and snub them.  From their perspective you are abandoning your own vacation group to play with the outsiders.

You're right, I forgot that aspect, that the bad players are part of the big family group vacation, and the good players are just driving in to get the good deal at a fancy course.  I'm not sure I agree with how much you think this is a nasty snub, but I agree it changes the picture a bit.  Does make it a little less cool.  Enough so that I agree at least that maybe the @huck344 might reconsider and go with the 2/2 split.

[huck344]

Thank you all for your responses and feedback.  It's kind of a funny predicament.  The two worst guys are the ones that are most upset and vocal about it.  The other two are actually pretty adamant that they would have a better time playing with the guys that they are  friends with and are at the same level.  I have brought those two along several times to play with the higher skilled players and they have said that we take the game too seriously (we don't take mulligans, count penalty shots and gimmes are putter grip length).  Of the higher skill players, there is only one who isn't in favor of mixing up the groups, but he is hell bent on breaking 75 at this course.  The others don't care too much as long as the beginners play quick and pick up after "x" amount of strokes.  In no way did I ever mean to "abandon" anyone.  I remember when I was just a beginner and played with a group of highly skilled golfers.  I was very self conscious and spent the entire round nervously apologizing for every slice, duff, skull, etc.  I have no idea if the people I played with were frustrated or not, but I've always remembered that feeling and honestly thought I was doing them a favor.  The only reason I even invited the 3 other players is that this course doesn't allow fivesomes so I thought it would be better to have 2 x 4's than a group of 3 and a group of 2.  In retrospect, I probably should not have said anything and just let it work itself out on the first tee.

On a positive note, I shot 77 this morning playing with the beginner group. . . Why can't I do that in my money games???!!!

[mdl]

Well, now you're definitely not being a dick.  Kinda seems at this point like you screwed yourself and there's no way out!