Solheim Cup Controversy: Who is more at fault?

[mvmac]

Walking off the green when a putt hasn't been conceded is bad sportsmanship IMO but I voted for Alison Lee. It's her responsibility to make sure the putt is good and Brittany Lincicome was yelling at her to not pick it up. Lee said she thought she heard it was good (don't understand why she heard that and not her partner telling her not to pick it up) but you also have to be sure that the concession is coming from your opponents and not someone in the crowd. Look for the thumbs up, make eye contact or just ask for confirmation.

I also think that the right thing to do would have been to have Lee put the ball back and putt it rather than have them automatically lose the hole. So I put that on Pettersen/Hull or even Captain Koch for not stepping in.

2-4/3

Player Lifts Ball in Mistaken Belief That Next Stroke Conceded

Q. In a match between A and B, B made a statement which A interpreted to mean that his (A's) next stroke was conceded. Accordingly, A lifted his ball. B then said that he had not conceded A's next stroke. What is the ruling?

A. If B's statement could reasonably have led A to think his next stroke had been conceded, in equity (Rule 1-4 ), A should replace his ball as near as possible to where it lay, without penalty.

Otherwise, A would incur a penalty stroke for lifting his ball without marking its position - Rule 20-1 - and he must replace his ball as near as possible to where it lay.

Here's the putt.

And a good recap of the whole thing.

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/9/20/concessiongate-solheim-overshadowed-by-17th-hole-antics.html

[Dave2512]

AL at fault but the move by the Euro pair away from the green was bad form. Though it seemed to have fired the U.S. Team up so... Given how upset Hull was really not worth it. She had an odd look coming offf the green after the harsh way SP reacted and obviously by 18 she was toast. Regardless of what anyone says it was a pivot point. The singles comeback was an epic beat down.

[Zeph]

I find the whole giving putts thing silly and causing more negativity to these cups. We've seen controversy over putts not being given etc. before. As far as I'm concerned, they could just drop the option of giving putts and have the players putt out.

If the putt is easy enough to be given, they might as well putt it. We all know they can miss many of these putts, especially in a high pressure situation .

I struggle seeing how the European players are at fault here. If the putt is not conceeded, you putt it. This is a big tournament that everyone wants to win. Why should one team be blamed for not giving a putt that could be missed and eventually lead to their victory? Which is why I think the entire thing should be removed. It adds something to the game that I don't think we need. One putt is given, a similar putt is not.

Is it bad form wanting to win the Solheim Cup? Should they conceed putts just to be nice and possibly lose the cup because of it?

The cup should be about which team is the better at playing golf, not bickering about shots players don't want to hit. It's impossible, but would've been interesting to have the cup played in an alternate reality where everything was identical, except that putts weren't conceeded.

[newtogolf]

You don't take the ball away until you have visual and verbal confirmation that the putt was given.  I played match play yesterday and no matter how close the ball was to the hole I made my opponent confirm he was giving me the putt.  Lee should know better.

[JazzFatCat]

I thought Hull was upset because she meant to concede the putt but she walked away without saying the words. Pettersen wasn't near the action so she assumed Hull would handle conceding the putt.

In a match between A and B, B made a statement which A interpreted to mean that his (A's) next stroke was conceded. Accordingly, A lifted his ball. B then said that he had not conceded A's next stroke. What is the ruling?

On TV they interviewed the official for that group and I think he said that he looked closely for some indication that the putt might have been conceded and didn't see/hear any so the bit in bold never happened so they couldn't replace the ball.

[Golfingdad]

All at fault (except lincicme) but mostly euros and more mostly Peterson. Purely speculating here, but I've never seen a 15" putt NOT conceded in these type events so I'm thinking petterson caused a stink solely because she saw a cheap way to win a hole - and there isn't a less sportsmanlike move possible than that.

[MrFlipper]

I thought Hull was upset because she meant to concede the putt but she walked away without saying the words. Pettersen wasn't near the action so she assumed Hull would handle conceding the putt.

Maybe, but I bet that SP and Hull agreed ahead of the match that SP would do all the match decisions. So Hull stayed quiet even though she wanted to give it. I think SP knew what she was doing. It's all on Lee, she should've known better.

[Dave2512]

Thing is right or wrong if you want someone to putt out watch them putt it out. If you were playing a match in league you wouldn't bee line for the next tee before your opponent setup for the putt. Knowing better or not there is a sportsmanship dynamic to golf.

[ZappyAd]

I think lee shouldn't have picked up her ball - one of the first things you learn is that you have to putt out unless your opponent explicitly tells you that you don't have to. So she broke the rules. However, the way the Europeans just walked off the green without either conceding the putt or waiting for her to putt the next one was very bad. Maybe they were trying to game her into rushing to putt out but really they should be watching and waiting while the hole is still live. Also don't understand why the rules guy didn't get them to put the ball back and putt it. Just generally poor golf from everyone.

[Valleygolfer]

I would say that multiple people are at fault here. Lee first, rules guy second and the euros next. If I was playing a round and walked off before my opponent putted, he misses it but says he made it, I cannot argue either way. It doesn't matter that they are in a audience setting, you watch your opponent finish out.

[JazzFatCat]

I think lee shouldn't have picked up her ball - one of the first things you learn is that you have to putt out unless your opponent explicitly tells you that you don't have to. So she broke the rules.

However, the way the Europeans just walked off the green without either conceding the putt or waiting for her to putt the next one was very bad. Maybe they were trying to game her into rushing to putt out but really they should be watching and waiting while the hole is still live.

Also don't understand why the rules guy didn't get them to put the ball back and putt it.

Just generally poor golf from everyone.

A.If B's statement could reasonably have led A to think his next stroke had been conceded,...

My understanding is that the rules guy said he didn't see Hull/Pettersen do or say anything that could be interpreted as conceding the putt so placing the ball back where it was wasn't an option.

[Golfingdad]

My understanding is that the rules guy said he didn't see Hull/Pettersen do or say anything that could be interpreted as conceding the putt so placing the ball back where it was wasn't an option.

Hull and her caddy starting walking to the next tee immediately after he putt came to rest - that doesn't count as saying anything but I certainly think that could be construed as "doing" something. If these people want somebody to make a putt they always just stand there stone faced with their arms folded, or avoiding looking directly at their opponent. When they walk to the next tee, that is body English for "I think this hole is over."

[InTheRough]

based on the video Europe should win the hole but it seems a little bush league to me...they all started walking off of the green as if they had given the putt only to stop and decide that they didn't want to give the putt after she had already picked up.

[mvmac]

My understanding is that the rules guy said he didn't see Hull/Pettersen do or say anything that could be interpreted as conceding the putt so placing the ball back where it was wasn't an option.

Right but Lee thought she heard "that's good", give her the benefit of the doubt, put the ball back and have her putt it. It's not like Lee was trying to cheat or get away with something, it was an honest mistake.

[imsys0042]

Honest mistake by Lee who would have thought that like every other time in that situation you scoop it up. If I see my opponents walking off line that, I assume I'm done. This is like being busted for doing 56 mph on the highway. Technically you are speeding but you do so without thinking. Total jerk move by the Europeans SP I think saw a cheap shot to go one up and took it. Watching the video it's very clear to me that Hull thought it was over and done with for a half. Unfortunately without the verbal to go with it, Lee loses the hole. But that is ridiculous. That's like the guy from my old golf league who once watched someone address his ball (balls were side by side). The other guy hit and while it was in the air he goes "two strokes, you hit my ball". Yes, according to the rules you should check your ball but that's just a dick move. If you are going to do that to win, you don't play the same game I do. In a sport where we honor the rules, even if we disagree with them and frequently people point something out that might cause someone else a penalty. This was a gotcha move by a real jerk, IMO. Didn't want to put it that way until I saw the video. But yeah, SP is a real jerk on this one

[Golfingdad]

Honest mistake by Lee who would have thought that like every other time in that situation you scoop it up. If I see my opponents walking off line that, I assume I'm done. This is like being busted for doing 56 mph on the highway. Technically you are speeding but you do so without thinking. Total jerk move by the Europeans SP I think saw a cheap shot to go one up and took it. Watching the video it's very clear to me that Hull thought it was over and done with for a half. Unfortunately without the verbal to go with it, Lee loses the hole. But that is ridiculous. That's like the guy from my old golf league who once watched someone address his ball (balls were side by side). The other guy hit and while it was in the air he goes "two strokes, you hit my ball". Yes, according to the rules you should check your ball but that's just a dick move. If you are going to do that to win, you don't play the same game I do. In a sport where we honor the rules, even if we disagree with them and frequently people point something out that might cause someone else a penalty. This was a gotcha move by a real jerk, IMO. Didn't want to put it that way until I saw the video. But yeah, SP is a real jerk on this one

Well said ... My thoughts exactly.

[dunlucedreams]

the whole thing lacked class. Petersen, Koch and Inksters poor choice of public reaction.

[nevets88]

Let's call it even?

Quote:

It happened at the 2000 Solheim Cup at Loch Lomond in Scotland. Sorenstam holed a 25-foot chip shot that appeared to halve the 13th hole in a match against Kelly Robbins and Pat Hurst. Then Robbins realized she actually had been away and should have gone before Sorenstam.

U.S. captain Pat Bradley stepped in and decided to make Sorenstam replay the shot, which caused angry feelings among the Europeans and some regret and embarrassment for the American side. Ultimately, the whole thing underscored just how fiercely competitive the Solheim had become.

http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commentary/article/9570485/espnw-replayed-chip-2000-irks-annika