Incident on the green

[isukgolf]

  Elmer said:

Almost hitting someone is different that hitting someone? unless they count almost birdies as birdies? Landing a ball 30 yards away on a drive-able par 4 should be expected. If you are at your 2nd shot on a par 5, the group ahead of you should be on the green. If not they are playing slow. I would have told them, "I am sorry but I saw an open green and went for it" "you keep pace or you get hit"! I should mention that I am very patient and I wait for people to clear greens and fairway, because I can be long. So If I see the fairway or green is open and you walk out of the woods, not my fault.

I am Speechless ... hopefully that was said in jest. Absolutely nothing could justify that thinking.

[Elmer]

  Lihu said:

So, how many times have you been in a fight on the golf course?

None, never, ever!

I have 1 of 2 results. I either land the ball and it rolls up to them (most people dont get pissed about this)

Or I hit it over them.

Like I said I am patient and I wait for greens and fairways to clear.

  Fourputt said:

How do you know where the ball landed?  It ended up 24 yards from the hole, but may have rolled an additional 30 yards to get there, meaning that he never even came close to hitting into them.  I'm not going to wait for the green to clear on a 300 yard hole when I know that my best imaginable carry downhill, downwind is about 250, and that might be a bit fanciful.

My home course has a drivable par 4, card says 286, but plays about 300 due to elevation. I put the ball usually on the fringe, but if it is dry it can roll......

This is when people are putting. but it is not uncommon for balls to come rolling through the green while you are on it.

[Elmer]

  isukgolf said:

I am Speechless ... hopefully that was said in jest. Absolutely nothing could justify that thinking.

Most people who behave like a big richard on the course are not on the interwebs boasting about being a big richard!

Come on now, this is the interwebs.

We dont need to be so uptight and serious.

[MrDC]

This is a perfect example of yet another thing players need to learn- maintain a presence on the course at all times, don't have everyone vacate the hole to look for their balls and wait to shoot, somebody has to stay near the green or on the fairway, or leave a cart/bag there, something to let the group behind know you're there, so you made an honest mistake, but so did they, and I doubt they even realize it.

[dkolo]

  Fourputt said:

Just one comment - blind shots require extra care and vigilance on the part of the player to assure that the group ahead has truly cleared the area.  That means either posting one of your group where he can see and let you know that they have moved on, or less desirable, simply waiting an extra minute after you are sure to be doubly certain that they are gone.  Even then it can happen, but you have a clear conscience if it still occurs after you have taken every precaution to avoid it. I hit into the group in front of me this year.  We had been fairly close behind them the entire round.  It was similar to the OP's scenario with a walking twosome following foursomes on a full course, then my threesome following them.  Our case was not a blind shot, but on the previous hole we had some issues and lost some time, so we expected to be a bit behind when we came to the next tee.  There was nobody in sight, no bags, nothing at all visible as far as we could see around the dogleg.  I teed my ball, went through my routine and just as I connected with the ball, they came out from behind a spruce tree and my ball landed less than 5 yards from them.  I did yell "FORE!", but they were still upset despite my apology and explanation.  They seemed to think that I was supposed to have x-ray vision or something.  I've had other near misses on that course due to the many blue spruce trees which can completely conceal not only a golfer but an entire riding cart, but with careful looking you can usually spot some movement or some hint that someone is back there.  When the whole bunch in front of you is hidden behind the trees, how can one not think that the hole is open?  Especially when you know that you had a delay on the previous hole and expected to have to close the gap. A golf course is an inherently hazardous place.  Sometimes even after careful vigilance, you can hit into another party.  There are cases where you have no way of knowing that you have done so, and no known reason to yell fore, and anyone stepping on a course should be aware that this can happen.  No action should be taken unless the act is blatant, or is repeated.  Accept the apology which should be forthcoming with good grace.  Messing with another player's ball is unnecessary. How do you know where the ball landed?  It ended up 24 yards from the hole, but may have rolled an additional 30 yards to get there, meaning that he never even came close to hitting into them.  I'm not going to wait for the green to clear on a 300 yard hole when I know that my best imaginable carry downhill, downwind is about 250, and that might be a bit fanciful.

This does raise a good question, though: on holes that are shorter, what is the way to approach it for higher handicappers who have high variance in their drives but are nevertheless fairly long hitters? So for instance, there's a second hole at a course I typically play that is listed at 290 to the flag. Game golf tells me my typical drive is 267 (obviously that's total, not carry), with a bunch of 250s but also a number of drives that went 290+, not all of which were wind or slope aided. On this particular hole, My tee shot has ended up in the greenside bunker two of the last three times I've played there (plugged once too because it went in on the fly, grr). Normally I'll try to tee off last to buy myself time, but what's the right way for me to act here? Should I be waiting until everyone is putting or should I wait until the green is clear?

[Fourputt]

  Elmer said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

So, how many times have you been in a fight on the golf course?

None, never, ever!

I have 1 of 2 results. I either land the ball and it rolls up to them (most people dont get pissed about this)

Or I hit it over them.

Like I said I am patient and I wait for greens and fairways to clear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

How do you know where the ball landed?  It ended up 24 yards from the hole, but may have rolled an additional 30 yards to get there, meaning that he never even came close to hitting into them.  I'm not going to wait for the green to clear on a 300 yard hole when I know that my best imaginable carry downhill, downwind is about 250, and that might be a bit fanciful.

My home course has a drivable par 4, card says 286, but plays about 300 due to elevation. I put the ball usually on the fringe, but if it is dry it can roll......

This is when people are putting. but it is not uncommon for balls to come rolling through the green while you are on it.

If you were (or anyone was) deliberately hitting balls into a green while my group was putting, you are going to hear about it, and so is the pro shop.  Sorry but that is just wrong.  The course I play now has 2 par 4 holes at about 300 yards from the middle tees.  I've never yet seen a big hitter play from the tee until the green is clear.  Thankfully, the players around here understand etiquette.

  Elmer said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by isukgolf

I am Speechless ... hopefully that was said in jest. Absolutely nothing could justify that thinking.

Most people who behave like a big richard on the course are not on the interwebs boasting about being a big richard!

Come on now, this is the interwebs.

We dont need to be so uptight and serious.

I think he's entirely justified in thinking that you were NOT justified in hitting when you knew the green was occupied.

  dkolo said:

This does raise a good question, though: on holes that are shorter, what is the way to approach it for higher handicappers who have high variance in their drives but are nevertheless fairly long hitters? So for instance, there's a second hole at a course I typically play that is listed at 290 to the flag. Game golf tells me my typical drive is 267 (obviously that's total, not carry), with a bunch of 250s but also a number of drives that went 290+, not all of which were wind or slope aided. On this particular hole, My tee shot has ended up in the greenside bunker two of the last three times I've played there (plugged once too because it went in on the fly, grr). Normally I'll try to tee off last to buy myself time, but what's the right way for me to act here? Should I be waiting until everyone is putting or should I wait until the green is clear?

If you can't wait, then play a shorter club.  That seems like an easy decision to me.

[Lihu]

  Elmer said:

Or I hit it over them.

I should just assume you enjoy leaving comments like these just to incite some outcry, so you can tell everyone to "take it easy, it's the inter webs, have a sense of humor. . ."

[Jeremie Boop]

  Fourputt said:

If you can't wait, then play a shorter club.  That seems like an easy decision to me.

That's typically what I do. If it's short enough that a driver is going to potentially bring the green into play I'll just hit my hybrid. Besides the safety factor, I hate looking like a fool by waiting for the green to clear and then hitting a horrible drive.

[newtogolf]

  Jeremie Boop said:

I feel like, in most situations, if someone saw the OP waiting to hit a shot from in the rough 240 out at his handicap they'd probably say he was being delusional and should just hit. Considering he thought he had next to no chance making it it's hard to fault him. Especially since he did try to apologize right away.

That may be the case but we know how far we can hit the ball.  If I catch my 3w well, I can reach the green from 230 - 240 yards out so I choose to wait.  I'd rather take some abuse for waiting and then chunking the shot than take the risk of hitting into someone.

OP tried to apologize right away but it's our responsibility to know where the group in front of us is and to do everything possible to not hit into them.  Waiting for the green to clear wasn't going to improve the pace of the course given the circumstances, so safety first.

[Jeremie Boop]

  newtogolf said:

That may be the case but we know how far we can hit the ball.  If I catch my 3w well, I can reach the green from 230 - 240 yards out so I choose to wait.  I'd rather take some abuse for waiting and then chunking the shot than take the risk of hitting into someone.

OP tried to apologize right away but it's our responsibility to know where the group in front of us is and to do everything possible to not hit into them.  Waiting for the green to clear wasn't going to improve the pace of the course given the circumstances, so safety first.

I'd agree, but he did check the green before hitting. It's not like he went up got the yardage and saw them on the green but still hit. When he got his yardage he did not see them anywhere around. Also, he said that he thought he had pretty much no chance of getting there regardless. The only thing he didn't do, and I'd hazard to guess a lot of people don't, is have his brother watch the green to make sure it was still clear.

[David in FL]

  Fourputt said:

It ended up 24 yards from the hole, but may have rolled an additional 30 yards to get there, meaning that he never even came close to hitting into them.  I'm not going to wait for the green to clear on a 300 yard hole when I know that my best imaginable carry downhill, downwind is about 250, and that might be a bit fanciful.

Exactly right. I'll never wait for a green to clear from 300 yards. There are a relatively few golfers who should, but I'm not one of them. And my "smoked" drive that rolls up 30 yards short of the front of the green does not constitute my "hitting in to you", even though you may have heard the ball land. It did however contribute to the overall pace of play. Note....in that case, I know the absolute maximum distance that I can possibly hit the ball and know that I will not reach the green.

[imsys0042]

I don't think there is any excuse for how he acted by picking up your ball and griping at you.   I'm sure that I would be mad too if two balls had come near me, but as an experienced golfer you have to understand that this can happen.  And they shouldn't assume that peoples' motives are wrong or they are a jerk.

Hitting 20-25 yards behind someone on a drive-able par 4 is perfectly fine if you understand that for the course conditions that you will not reach them.   If you think that if you hit your best shot and it will roll to them, then don't hit.   It doesn't sound like you intended to hit into them.

For the par 5, it was a blind shot and you went and looked.   I can't tell all the specifics, but clearly they were somewhere you didn't see them.   I play holes like that all the time and I've had a couple of oops where someone was in the woods after I waited a long time and went back to my ball.  I said sorry and they were fine with it when I explained.

As I have improved and hit the ball farther I always consider the conditions and how far my absolute best hit would go and wait accordingly.

What bothers me is that people will be confrontational about it.    Really?  golf is supposed to be relaxing.   When you came up to them, he should have been calmer.

[newtogolf]

  Jeremie Boop said:

I'd agree, but he did check the green before hitting. It's not like he went up got the yardage and saw them on the green but still hit. When he got his yardage he did not see them anywhere around. Also, he said that he thought he had pretty much no chance of getting there regardless. The only thing he didn't do, and I'd hazard to guess a lot of people don't, is have his brother watch the green to make sure it was still clear.

I'm not saying given the specifics the OP was totally in the wrong, but if I know there's a group in front of me and I don't see them then it's likely just they are out of my line of sight.  There have been numerous times where the group in front is looking for a lost ball deep in woods or behind a green so they are not visible.  I agree his brother should have kept watch until he was 100% certain they had moved on to the next hole.

The other guy was also wrong for picking up his ball given it was an accident.

[Dave2512]

Can't say I've ever played a course where it's possible to lose sight of the group ahead. Not saying their aren't blind shots but I am always aware of where the other golfers are. I would have seen them on a tee as I was finishing a hole and known that even if I can't see them they are out there somewhere. They don't magically transport further through the course than the normal course of play would take them.

That said it's not life and death your ball didn't remain on the green, if it in fact got there. You can replace it and play on. The safety of others should be the first concern everything else is easy to deal with. Toss it back on the green and putt it. Then take care to not make the mistake of hitting into the group ahead again.

FWIW I've done this accidentally knowing there were people on the green. But it's always a fluke not from 210 out, the WTF 300 yard 3w that is a once in a life time shot, 210 is too close to take a chance. The only time I advance my ball when the group ahead is that close is when I am punching out or hitting out of trouble with certainty it's not going to get there because the club I am using travels half that far or whatever. If you've ever seen someone that's been hit by a golf ball you know how serious it can be. I've seen people taken away in ambulances after being hit, blood everywhere gory movie type stuff.

[Pete F]

If someone drives up on you just put their ball in the hole, works as long as the club has a bar.

Just kidding

[Fourputt]

  Dave2512 said:

Can't say I've ever played a course where it's possible to lose sight of the group ahead. Not saying their aren't blind shots but I am always aware of where the other golfers are. I would have seen them on a tee as I was finishing a hole and known that even if I can't see them they are out there somewhere. They don't magically transport further through the course than the normal course of play would take them.

That said it's not life and death your ball didn't remain on the green, if it in fact got there. You can replace it and play on. The safety of others should be the first concern everything else is easy to deal with. Toss it back on the green and putt it. Then take care to not make the mistake of hitting into the group ahead again.

FWIW I've done this accidentally knowing there were people on the green. But it's always a fluke not from 210 out, the WTF 300 yard 3w that is a once in a life time shot, 210 is too close to take a chance. The only time I advance my ball when the group ahead is that close is when I am punching out or hitting out of trouble with certainty it's not going to get there because the club I am using travels half that far or whatever. If you've ever seen someone that's been hit by a golf ball you know how serious it can be. I've seen people taken away in ambulances after being hit, blood everywhere gory movie type stuff.

He hit from 240 not 210.

[colin007]

ball rolling up to me =/= hitting into me.  no bog deal.  the OP shouldnt feel badly at all.

[7ironNYC]

Got hit squarely in the head walking off the green 2 weeks ago by an EXTREMELY wayward drive with no FORE call.  To call the hole adjacent would be generous - picture a right handed baseball player hitting the ball 240 yards (checked this distance on google earth) essentially BEHIND him over the third base dugout.

Deposited his ball into the woods once I regained my bearings, and lost no sleep over it.