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World Handicap System Now Out (2020)


iacas

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Hi everyone, I’ve been reading through this forum for a while but have just registered as I wanted to get your take on the new WHS.

i'm in Germany, and here regardless of gender everyone starts with handicap -54 and there are basically two ways to improve that handicap. Play in competitions or post an EDS (every day score) round either with a friend or a pro. Either way someone else has to count your strokes and sign your card. Therefore as this new WHS system seems to be closer to the US system than the one I currently know and most of you guys seem to be in the US i thought I’d ask....

if a handicap is based on the average of the last 10 out of 20 rounds, you can't directly improve (or worsen) after a tournament? Or how often is it updated? Are you then obliged to post every round you play? I haven’t been playing for that long, but joined a club last year and started to play at least twice a week, but see that as practice. So if I played and practiced on the DR for say 3 weeks and played in a competition, won it (in the net category) and improved my HC I see that as a reward for the hard work I put in. If someone does the same under this system, ie plays loads but never posts a private round are they seen as a sandbagger?

woulde be really interested to hear your perspective. 

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Under the current USGA rules we are required to post all rounds except practice rounds and rounds played alone. If you don't you are breaking the rules and your handicap is not legitimate.  

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4-3-2018 at 10:22 PM, Lissy said:

Hi everyone, I’ve been reading through this forum for a while but have just registered as I wanted to get your take on the new WHS.

i'm in Germany, and here regardless of gender everyone starts with handicap -54 and there are basically two ways to improve that handicap. Play in competitions or post an EDS (every day score) round either with a friend or a pro. Either way someone else has to count your strokes and sign your card. Therefore as this new WHS system seems to be closer to the US system than the one I currently know and most of you guys seem to be in the US i thought I’d ask....

if a handicap is based on the average of the last 10 out of 20 rounds, you can't directly improve (or worsen) after a tournament? Or how often is it updated? Are you then obliged to post every round you play? I haven’t been playing for that long, but joined a club last year and started to play at least twice a week, but see that as practice. So if I played and practiced on the DR for say 3 weeks and played in a competition, won it (in the net category) and improved my HC I see that as a reward for the hard work I put in. If someone does the same under this system, ie plays loads but never posts a private round are they seen as a sandbagger?

woulde be really interested to hear your perspective. 

Your handicap should be how good you are now, not how good you were 3 months ago. If you practice a lot, play a lot of practice rounds and got better but did not turn in your scores, in my book you are a sandbagger. A couple of practice rounds to work out a change, or to play some extra balls to practice on chipping or so is ok. But you are talking about loads of rounds, not turning in scores.

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I was hoping they would allow rounds played alone to be counted, but oh well.

I like the new (to Europe) system with using a rolling average, rather than today's version, which can make your handicap fluctuate wildly, Typically for higher handicappers they get one good round and plummets, only to struggle playing to their handicap for the next months while it slowly creeps back up.

I also like that it's moved to a net stroke focus, rather than Stableford. Of course, with the max double bogey rule, I don't know how big of a difference it actually makes. I've always liked counting strokes when playing golf, not points. The downside was of course that without a max double bogey rule, those 14 shot holes ruined the entire round.

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Hey MacDutch, i get your point, and yes for many that’s true. As I play at least 1 tournament a month in the summer, sometimes 2/3 depending on the timing I wouldn’t put myself in that category. I was talking about weeks rather than months. Either way the current system we have doesn’t really allow anything different. Posting scores in a private round is seen as not quite legit, plus the fact that it costs extra and has to be registered at least a day in advance makes it impractical too.

As much as anything I could see the interest in tournaments dropping as the incentive for many would disappear. 

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Anyone know if the "Bonus for Excellence" is expected to remain and if it will stay at .96?

With the planned move to the best 8 of the most recent 20 differentials, we are going to beat our handicap less than 1 in 5 rounds.

Brian Kuehn

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5 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Anyone know if the "Bonus for Excellence" is expected to remain and if it will stay at .96?

With the planned move to the best 8 of the most recent 20 differentials, we are going to beat our handicap less than 1 in 5 rounds.

I'm not sure about the multiplier.

Right now (with the multiplier) we beat our handicap index (via the differential) about 1 in 5 rounds. It should be 1 in 4, but the multiplier makes it a little bit more difficult.

At 8 out of 20, without a multiplier, I expect it may be about the same. (4 out of 20 rounds should beat the index, and that's 1 out of 5.)

That makes me think that the 8 out 10 replaces the 0.96 multiplier.

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On March 19, 2018 at 12:23 AM, Lissy said:

Hey MacDutch, i get your point, and yes for many that’s true. As I play at least 1 tournament a month in the summer, sometimes 2/3 depending on the timing I wouldn’t put myself in that category. I was talking about weeks rather than months. Either way the current system we have doesn’t really allow anything different. Posting scores in a private round is seen as not quite legit, plus the fact that it costs extra and has to be registered at least a day in advance makes it impractical too.

As much as anything I could see the interest in tournaments dropping as the incentive for many would disappear. 

I'm not sure if competitions will become less attractive under the new system. As Zeph mentions, amateurs in Europe often play a really good round once and then really struggle to play to it subsequently. This can lead to players avoiding competitions in order to hang on to that better handicap. I think competitions will be liked and disliked for the sames reasons as before: cameraderie, the chance to measure yourself with others (often with players you wouldn't normally play with) and the competitive challenge for those who like and enjoy them, the added stress level and pressure for those who don't.

I certainly hope that competitions don't lose appeal, as they are a major element of what makes golf a club or community sport. Getting and maintaining a handicap with private rounds could potentially make golf more individual/insular.

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On 3/18/2018 at 12:58 PM, Zeph said:

I was hoping they would allow rounds played alone to be counted, but oh well.

Me too. I play alone probably 75% of the time. Mostly due to choice as I rather go on a Tuesday when I can get around in 2 hours without seeing another person instead of a foursome that takes 4 hours (and waiting on every shot). 

I have been consistently improving over the last couple years and I make a point to play more rounds that I can post but dread everyone's infatuation with Friday or weekend rounds.... Rather be with my family then.

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On 3/18/2018 at 12:58 PM, Zeph said:

I was hoping they would allow rounds played alone to be counted, but oh well.

 

47 minutes ago, upndown21 said:

Me too. I play alone probably 75% of the time. Mostly due to choice as I rather go on a Tuesday when I can get around in 2 hours without seeing another person instead of a foursome that takes 4 hours (and waiting on every shot). 

I know that @Zeph is unlikely to have paid a ton of attention, being in Europe, but there was a lot of discussion when the USGA decided not to allow posting of solo rounds.  I believe that decision makes a lot of sense.  Handicaps, under any system, are intended to allow players of differing abilities to compete against one another on a fair basis.  Competing means playing with others.  Posting rounds played alone may skew your handicap.  Other systems around the world, with a lower significance of non-competition rounds, may have it closer to right.  It will be interesting to see the final decisions on which rounds are posted, whether non-comp rounds require prior registration to post, what happens to various team and match play results, etc.

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2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

 

I know that @Zeph is unlikely to have paid a ton of attention, being in Europe, but there was a lot of discussion when the USGA decided not to allow posting of solo rounds.  I believe that decision makes a lot of sense.  Handicaps, under any system, are intended to allow players of differing abilities to compete against one another on a fair basis.  Competing means playing with others.  Posting rounds played alone may skew your handicap.  Other systems around the world, with a lower significance of non-competition rounds, may have it closer to right.  It will be interesting to see the final decisions on which rounds are posted, whether non-comp rounds require prior registration to post, what happens to various team and match play results, etc.

It just puts me in an awkward spot as I trend down. Unless it is a close friend I tend to stay out of the big money games for this reason. Showing a 10 and shooting a 5 differential gets bad looks.

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29 minutes ago, upndown21 said:

It just puts me in an awkward spot as I trend down. Unless it is a close friend I tend to stay out of the big money games for this reason. Showing a 10 and shooting a 5 differential gets bad looks.

I'm a little confused.  You're saying you play better when you play with other people?  That your handicap is high because you post your (higher) solo rounds?  

Dave

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8 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I'm a little confused.  You're saying you play better when you play with other people?  That your handicap is high because you post your (higher) solo rounds?  

Not posting solo rounds (75% of rounds) while actively working with an instructor and getting better leaves my handicap skewed higher. My ghin is a 10.1 but tracking all my scores I am a  8.7.

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9 hours ago, upndown21 said:

Not posting solo rounds (75% of rounds) while actively working with an instructor and getting better leaves my handicap skewed higher. My ghin is a 10.1 but tracking all my scores I am a  8.7.

That's life within our system, go out and compete if you want to.  And if you manage to post something around a 5 differential, you deserve to win a few bucks.  Of course, taking you at your word, you'll only shoot a differential of 9 about one time in five.  To go 4 strokes lower is getting into the 10% or less probability range.

Dave

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  • 2 weeks later...

LOL a bit late ....

I liked the old EGA system, but there were many abusing it and keep their index around 18 or so, to win tournaments and enter 10-20 bad scores of casual rounds to stay in that 18 comfort zone, being able to shoot a 12-14 cap on a good day. Sandbaggers or in Dutch "Duikboot" (= submarine)

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We have competitions every day of the week at my club with prizes eg 5 balls for a win, 1 ball for top 10%. This means everyone plays honest golf and the handicaps are quite accurate. We also bet with each other which also produces some degree of true effort . Our system takes best 8 from 20 (based on the slope) and also has a .93 multiplier (i think that's right).

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