Can a ball move both ways? (draw followed by fade)

[ZappyAd]

Every so often when I hit my G30 driver I seem to get a shot that starts off shaping left, reaches its apex and then starts moving to the right as it comes down.   It isn't a big move either way (each movement looks like it would be 5 yards or so if it was consistent for the whole shot). I thought maybe it was an optical illusion from the way I was leaning or something but it doesn't happen all the time.  However it does happen reasonably often (maybe once in 20 practice shots on the range).

I was thinking it might be possible to explain it because I am randomly getting some kind of rotation of the spin axis, like draw + topspin where the topspin eventually reverses the side spin. It isn't particularly a problem just wondering if it could actually be real or if I am just not seeing it right.

[DaveP043]

I've seen that happen in a side wind.  While the velocity and spin rate are at their highest, just after impact, the ball can curve into the wind.  As the velocity and spin decay, the "spin-induced drag" decays also, so the wind could take over and push it in the opposite direction.  I can't imagine a scenario where the side spin would reverse itself on its own.

[Golfingdad]

Sure.  Caused by wind or a deformed range ball.

[Patch]

I have seen range balls do some pretty strange movements. I just figured the ball from previous wear and tear was worn out.

Perhaps too many trips through the ball washer had made it out of round, or wore some of the dimples off.  

Maybe some of the balls had come from a long spell in a water hazard.

[GolfLug]

 

6 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Sure.  Caused by wind or a deformed range ball.

+1.. At least 4-5 out of a bucket of 40 usually.

[Gunther]

Yes, I've only ever experienced this on the range, never during a round.

[SavvySwede]

1 minute ago, Gunther said:

Yes, I've only ever experienced this on the range, never during a round.

A couple good scuffs from a wedge can turn any ball into a trick ball.

[djfajt71]

Not on purpose and usually with a shake of the head and hands on my hips.

[DeadMan]

There's a range in the southeast Denver area that had balls that would knuckle all over the place. They were so worn that they didn't really have dimples. I haven't been back there in a while, so I don't know if that's still the case. It was pretty entertaining to see the balls move all over the place.

You can also get that with balls that have big gashes on them. For a laugh, next time you see a ball that's been cut by a mower, you should hit it (just be careful that nobody will get hurt). I hit half a ball once that looked normal for about 50 yards and then just died and went right to the ground.

Now, without wind or something like a cut ball, I doubt it could happen. I'm not an expert on physics, but the ball's spin axis would have to change, and without some outside force to do that, it won't happen.

[Golfingdad]

7 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Now, without wind or something like a cut ball, I doubt it could happen. I'm not an expert on physics, but the ball's spin axis would have to change, and without some outside force to do that, it won't happen.

But you clearly have enough of an understanding of it. :)  Once the ball is hit, no forces are acting on it besides the air and gravity.

[Gunther]

26 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

A couple good scuffs from a wedge can turn any ball into a trick ball.

Perhaps but I've played balls scuffed by wedges, cart paths, and trees and never experienced the knuckling effect in a round of golf off a tee.  Out of the rough, sure.

[mchepp]

Some ranges have those low flight or better described shorter distance range balls and sometimes I found that those can have the phenomena described by the OP. They would do all sorts of strange things. 

[Lihu]

34 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

There's a range in the southeast Denver area that had balls that would knuckle all over the place. They were so worn that they didn't really have dimples. I haven't been back there in a while, so I don't know if that's still the case. It was pretty entertaining to see the balls move all over the place.

You can also get that with balls that have big gashes on them. For a laugh, next time you see a ball that's been cut by a mower, you should hit it (just be careful that nobody will get hurt). I hit half a ball once that looked normal for about 50 yards and then just died and went right to the ground.

Now, without wind or something like a cut ball, I doubt it could happen. I'm not an expert on physics, but the ball's spin axis would have to change, and without some outside force to do that, it won't happen.

I've had this happen on deformed range balls before with what appeared to be a windless day. It was entertaining. Hasn't happened recently though even with deformed balls.

 

22 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

But you clearly have enough of an understanding of it. :)  Once the ball is hit, no forces are acting on it besides the air and gravity.

I don't think anyone has an understanding of it. I'm pretty sure we don't yet have the technology (software) to analyze this situation, but I'm sure once you retire it would be a welcomed project for your second life PhD dissertation.

BTW, I think there are also internal forces inside the ball that are still acting upon it at the beginning of the flight and might dissipate somewhere later on in the flight. So, it's pretty complicated. . .

 

14 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Perhaps but I've played balls scuffed by wedges, cart paths, and trees and never experienced the knuckling effect in a round of golf off a tee.  Out of the rough, sure.

I think with enough spin and velocity, it is possible to get this kind of behavior?

 

45 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

A couple good scuffs from a wedge can turn any ball into a trick ball.

Seen it happen with other golfers as well. Usually really strong players.

[SavvySwede]

7 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I don't think anyone has an understanding of it. I'm pretty sure we don't yet have the technology (software) to analyze this situation, but I'm sure once you retire it would be a welcomed project for your second life PhD dissertation.

BTW, I think there are also internal forces inside the ball that are still acting upon it. . .

??? And you believe this because???

[Lihu]

3 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

??? And you believe this because???

Just watching videos of golf balls being impacted, no real theory or anything just a simple observation and "guess".

 

 

 

I just figured the elastic core would still continue to oscillate for a little bit after impact?

 

[SavvySwede]

12 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The videos of the balls being impacted.

 

 

I figured the elastic core would still continue to oscillate for a little bit after impact?

 

That's not a real video though. Look at this one instead. Impact at about 45s in

 

 

 

[djfajt71]

49 minutes ago, djfajt71 said:

Not on purpose and usually with a shake of the head and hands on my hips.

I totally misunderstood the initial post!  I thought they were asking for everyone's ability to be able to work a golf ball. 

[Lihu]

15 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

That's not a real video though. Look at this one instead.

 

 

Yes, I included it in my post just before you posted this as well.

It still oscillates, but not as much as the original video. . .

Here's yet another one. . .