Presidential Race 2016

[Gunther]

14 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

One thing for sure Bernie needs to make peace with the reality it's not going to be him and start rallying his supporters to move towards Clinton. He's already said the most important thing is defeating Trump so my guess is he will be able to sell it to his supporters. Trump seems convinced they share an audience but I'm not seeing that here.

It's gonna happen. Not at the clip of WV voters, to be sure, but Trump is going to get Sanders voters across the country.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/279430-nearly-half-of-sanders-voters-in-west-virginia-would-vote

Edited May 16, 2016 by Gunther

[jamo]

How does:

34 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Keep in mind that Trump is probably the most transparent of any of the people running for office.

go with:

34 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Trump was interviewed recently and asked about his taxes, he simply stated "None of you business."

?

_______________________________________________________

And what evidence have we seen that:

34 minutes ago, Lihu said:

This is fine for a businessman, and once he is POTUS he simply will open up his personal finances to the public.

is true?

 

 

[Dave2512]

16 minutes ago, Gunther said:

It's gonna happen. Not at the clip of WV voters, to be sure, but Trump is going to get Sanders voters across the country.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/279430-nearly-half-of-sanders-voters-in-west-virginia-would-vote

Not sure how reliable exit poll data will be when Bernie commands his minions to rally behind HRC. The only real commonality is being a party outsider. Trump hasn't stayed on message long enough with anything for anyone to know what he is really about. Well there is the wall thing but that's not going to happen.

[Ernest Jones]

I think Trump should get @Gunther as a running mate. @Braivo can be head of PR and the cheerleading squad. 

[newtogolf]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Most people who are not running for office can easily pass that level of scrutiny, you are likely referring to the career politicians who can't. Trump and Sanders could both pass this test.

Keep in mind that Trump is probably the most transparent of any of the people running for office. He earned his way to being part of the American nobility, and his 5 children are themselves public figures. You don't hear too much about them because they are pretty much quite people.

Trump was interviewed recently and asked about his taxes, he simply stated "None of you business." This is fine for a businessman, and once he is POTUS he simply will open up his personal finances to the public.

There's nothing to discuss about Sanders, he's pretty much open as well.

I think he's just telling Bernie to flee from the criminals that infest the Democratic party. Not that the Republican party is any better.

I think you are a bit blinded by your loyalty for Trump and probably don't know enough about Sanders to back that up.  Trump has been a successful businessman for many years but I'd be willing to bet he's made some shady business deals, paid off some inspectors and county officials to get building permits and certificates of occupancy.  Some of these people may not be willing to come forward  out of fear it will jeopardize their own careers but that doesn't mean Trump's past is clean.  

As for his tax returns, he made it our business when he demanded past candidates produce their tax returns when they ran for POTUS.  He likely didn't realize at the time it would be used against him.  Given all the money he claims to make and be worth, I expect to see his tax rate higher than yours or mine.  While we all strive (at least I do) to pay the least  we legally can, we should know before we vote for him that he's not guilty of tax fraud, especially since he's being audited.  

People with money do a pretty good job of burying their skeletons deep but over time they get dug up.  Consider how long Bill Cosby got away with drugging women and having sex with them or Lance Armstrong got away with using PED's.  Cosby was a guy who was well revered by everyone and given numerous honorary degrees from prestigious Universities.  

We are already seeing some strange things come out about Trump like how he impersonated a PR person to a magazine reporter just to plant stories about how great he was.  

[saevel25]

18 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

As for his tax returns, he made it our business when he demanded past candidates produce their tax returns when they ran for POTUS.  He likely didn't realize at the time it would be used against him.  Given all the money he claims to make and be worth, I expect to see his tax rate higher than yours or mine.  While we all strive (at least I do) to pay the least  we legally can, we should know before we vote for him that he's not guilty of tax fraud, especially since he's being audited.  

Doesn't matter. He has claimed in court that his net worth fluctuates greatly just depending on the mood he is in . 

I bet he doesn't produce them. I am not even sure it's a rule or not. 

[jamo]

17 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Doesn't matter. He has claimed in court that his net worth fluctuates greatly just depending on the mood he is in . 

I bet he doesn't produce them. I am not even sure it's a rule or not. 

It's not a rule, no.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Golfingdad said:

Bernie Sanders has been in Congress since 1990, in public office since 1981, and attempting to be in public office since the "early to mid 1970's."

Yes, I know, he's kind of an exception to my generalization regarding corruption. There are many others that we don't hear about either, but a generalization targets all these corrupt people and lumps the good with the bad.

Can you tell I hate politics?

1 hour ago, jamo said:

How does:

go with:

?

Sure it does. As a corporation, Trump has to keep some secrets out of his corporate competitor's eyes. That could ruin his business empire.

He's transparent because we pretty much know how he will act given the TV shows he's had, his personal attacks on Obama, his golf, pretty much everything. His personality is an open book, how can you not know what he feels at any given moment? I'd rather have that than someone who hides behind a perfect mask.

[WUTiger]

6 hours ago, saevel25 said:

...To the Evangelical right there is no compromising on their beliefs.

Be aware that not all evangelicals are hard right. A number of congregations have taken up the cause of refugees, and are sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants. These congregations are proponents of social justice, a key element of Christian thought.

Evangelicals are members of both major political parties.

[saevel25]

34 minutes ago, WUTiger said:

Be aware that not all evangelicals are hard right. A number of congregations have taken up the cause of refugees, and are sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants. These congregations are proponents of social justice, a key element of Christian thought.

Evangelicals are members of both major political parties.

I put that in my post when I said 60% of them voted republican, not 100%. Yet, 60% of 20% of the voting base is still a big number I don't think Trump can afford to lose. Given the odds of him losing all those votes are not likely. Yet, if that 20% drops to 15 or 10%, in some key states that can hurt. 

 

[Lihu]

34 minutes ago, WUTiger said:

Be aware that not all evangelicals are hard right. A number of congregations have taken up the cause of refugees, and are sympathetic to the plight of illegal immigrants. These congregations are proponents of social justice, a key element of Christian thought.

Evangelicals are members of both major political parties.

I would say that most Christians fall into this category. You just don't hear about them as much.

[WUTiger]

25 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I would say that most Christians fall into this category. You just don't hear about them as much.

You're absolutely right. The formal National Association of Evangelicals (NEA) that takes in quite a few Protestant denominations. I'm Catholic and my wife is Lutheran, and like the evangelicals, we "take Jesus Christ seriously and believe in the Bible"  (although I'm imperfect, as my golf HDCP and other things about me bear out).

The term evangelical purports to describe all those of denominations of the NEA. But, as noted earlier in this thread, there's a lot of variety of beliefs within the evangelicals.

Hence, to Ted Cruz's surprise, he didn't have a lock on the evangelical vote.

Note to @saevel25: I missed your 60% comment - I should have gone back a couple of pages further before keyboarding my earlier remarks.

[Dave2512]

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

He's transparent because we pretty much know how he will act given the TV shows he's had, his personal attacks on Obama, his golf, pretty much everything. His personality is an open book, how can you not know what he feels at any given moment? I'd rather have that than someone who hides behind a perfect mask.

ThIs isn't what his campaign wants us to believe. Trump himself is still making the case there is character Trump and President Trump. 

[newtogolf]

While this isn't tied directly to Bernie yet, it appears his wife, Jane, may have caused a college to fail due to taking on excessive debt that may have been acquired by misrepresenting the schools finances;

Quote

A college once run by Sen. Bernie Sanders’s wife Jane has announced it’s closing in two weeks, thanks to a crushing debt burden it took on during her presidency.

Jane Sanders served as president of Burlington College in Vermont from 2004 to 2011. When she took over, the tiny school had just a few hundred students and was based out of a small building in Burlington, but Sanders dreamed of much greater things. In 2010, she spearheaded an effort to borrow about $10 million in order to buy a large property being sold off by the Catholic Diocese of Burlington. The new, expansive property would provide the college a much larger campus and would allow it to heavily boost enrollment.

The plan at the time was to transform Burlington College from a tiny school of just a couple hundred students into a bigger regional academic player, with an enrollment of 600 or more.

But the amount of debt was dramatic for such a tiny school, and it ended up backfiring horribly. The college’s enrollment did not rise quickly enough to finance its debt payments, and instead its financial position rapidly deteriorated. In 2011, Sanders resigned as president, and subsequent administrators tried frantically to keep the school afloat. Expenses were slashed, the school dipped into its tiny endowment to meet routine expenses, and the school sold off a huge swath of the property it had so recently purchased.

Finally, last week, Burlington College reached the end of its rope. Administrators were informed their line of credit would not be renewed, while the The New England Association of Schools and Colleges was expected to revoked its accreditation because of its financial state. Seeing no way forward, the board of trustees voted Friday to end academic operations May 27.

In a statement, Burlington College Dean of Operations Coralee Holm bluntly said the college failed due to “the crushing weight of the debt incurred by the purchase of the Archdiocese property” made by Sanders.

In a press conference Monday afternoon, Holm described the college’s collapse as “heartbreaking.”

“To see an [educational] institution go out of business is very difficult,” she said, with tears filling her eyes. The school’s employees will lose their jobs, while students in the middle of degrees will have to transfer to another school, potentially losing credits in the process.

But there may be even more to the story than a case of bad business sense.

As was reported in a 2015 Daily Caller News Foundation investigation, Burlington College obtained its fatal $10 million in debt through dubious means that may even have amounted to fraud on the part of Sanders or others. In order to have $6.5 million in tax-free bonds approved by the Vermont Educational and Health Buildings Finance Agency (VEHBFA), Burlington College had to demonstrate it was set to receive at least $2.27 million in pledges and donations in the near future. The school subsequently produced a list of $2.6 million in grants and legally-binding pledges it expected to receive within the next five years.

Yet in the summer of 2011, just a few months after the school received its big loan, an audit of the college’s finances showed only $1.3 million in short- and long-term financial commitments, suggesting about half of the school’s supposedly guaranteed pledges had simply vanished. If Sanders or others at Burlington College misrepresented the school’s financial situation, it could represent a case of fraud.

In January, 2016, attorney Vermont Republican Party vice-chair Brady Toensing sent a letter to U.S. Attorney Eric Miller asking him to investigate the matter, but thus far the federal government has shown no signs it is looking at the issue.

 

  

[Braivo]

15 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

I long for a Trump-Palin card it would be high comedy for the ages.

My guess is Trump's choice comes down to a few things, improving his standing with certain groups, a fail-safe for his political inexperience and countering Hillary's choice. Trump wants the nation to think he is brimming with confidence but him saying stuff like Bernie should make a 3rd party run says otherwise. He is going to have a tough time finding one person that does everything for him.

Brimming with confidence doesn't mean you stop fighting the battle. He has to finish off his enemies while he's ahead. 

Also, his VP choice will likely reflect his desire to actually get things done in office rather than someone that will help win over voters. I doubt the VP choice matters all that much in swaying voters anyway, tbh. My guess is he goes with Jeff Sessions because The Wall. 

15 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

One thing for sure Bernie needs to make peace with the reality it's not going to be him and start rallying his supporters to move towards Clinton. He's already said the most important thing is defeating Trump so my guess is he will be able to sell it to his supporters. Trump seems convinced they share an audience but I'm not seeing that here.

I don't think they are going to rally around HRC as much as people think. They see HRC as the establishment that they want to destroy. If Sanders endorses HRC full on it exposes him as a fraud in his anti-establishment policies. Trump will get some Sanders voters, no doubt. Others will simply stay home, very few will become vocal supporters of HRC. 

15 hours ago, Gunther said:

It's gonna happen. Not at the clip of WV voters, to be sure, but Trump is going to get Sanders voters across the country.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/279430-nearly-half-of-sanders-voters-in-west-virginia-would-vote

Yes, yes he will. The tweets about Sanders running third party is more about showing sympathy for his supporters. 

 

14 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

I think Trump should get @Gunther as a running mate. @Braivo can be head of PR and the cheerleading squad. 

The head of PR is already taken, and I highly doubt I could add more value than Katrina Pierson :

12 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I put that in my post when I said 60% of them voted republican, not 100%. Yet, 60% of 20% of the voting base is still a big number I don't think Trump can afford to lose. Given the odds of him losing all those votes are not likely. Yet, if that 20% drops to 15 or 10%, in some key states that can hurt. 

 

 

[Elmer]

13 hours ago, Lihu said:

 

He's transparent because we pretty much know how he will act given the TV shows he's had, his personal attacks on Obama, his golf, pretty much everything. His personality is an open book, how can you not know what he feels at any given moment? I'd rather have that than someone who hides behind a perfect mask.

How is he transparent?
The guy is denying he acted as his own publicist, even after it was brought up that he has admitted to such actions in both court and previous interviews?

 

[saevel25]

10 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Brimming with confidence doesn't mean you stop fighting the battle. He has to finish off his enemies while he's ahead. 

Also, his VP choice will likely reflect his desire to actually get things done in office rather than someone that will help win over voters. I doubt the VP choice matters all that much in swaying voters anyway,

A VP choice can carry weight in an election. Example, I believe Biden was a great and brilliant pick by Obama. It gave him credibility with more white voters. It also gave him a pit pull in the VP debates were he shredded Paul Ryan and Palin.  

10 minutes ago, Braivo said:

I don't think they are going to rally around HRC as much as people think. They see HRC as the establishment that they want to destroy. If Sanders endorses HRC full on it exposes him as a fraud in his anti-establishment policies. Trump will get some Sanders voters, no doubt. Others will simply stay home, very few will become vocal supporters of HRC. 

Not unless Sanders sells it well. Sanders has already said that Hillary is better than any Republican candidate. I think what he says carries more weight with his voters over Trump. 

Remember who support Sanders. People who do not like Wall Street. People who want free education and free health care. None of which Trump supports. 

Still, the question has to be asked, will Evangelicals even turn out to vote as they have in the past? I still question their enthusiasm when the candidate for the presidency is not viewed as a social conservative. 

 

[newtogolf]

16 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

A VP choice can carry weight in an election. Example, I believe Biden was a great and brilliant pick by Obama. It gave him credibility with more white voters. It also gave him a pit pull in the VP debates were he shredded Paul Ryan and Palin.  

Not unless Sanders sells it well. Sanders has already said that Hillary is better than any Republican candidate. I think what he says carries more weight with his voters over Trump. 

Remember who support Sanders. People who do not like Wall Street. People who want free education and free health care. None of which Trump supports. 

Still, the question has to be asked, will Evangelicals even turn out to vote as they have in the past? I still question their enthusiasm when the candidate for the presidency is not viewed as a social conservative. 

 

The smart Evangelicals will hold their nose and vote for Trump because they know if Hillary gets into office she will load the Supreme Court with ultra liberal justices that will ensure no rulings will be made in their favor for quite some time.  

The way I see this election, it's not about who is POTUS for the next four years as much as it's about who gets to replace Justice Scalia and any other justice positions that are vacated over the next four years.