Billy Mayfair, Bernhard Langer Still Anchoring Putter?

[jamo]

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

Every "stroke" doesn't necessarily include a "strike".  The stroke must be defined, or a whiff would never count.

I don't have any comment other than to say that this was fun to read. 

[iacas]

22 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

I don't think they need to define a stroke, only the strike itself. Scooping, scraping, flicking are already against the rules.

Others replied already, but yeah… I disagree.  They have to define a stroke. Otherwise you could "strike" the ball by using a pool cue type motion.

[Gunther]

Just saw Langer's par-saving, tournament-winning, 12-foot putt.  How anyone can claim he wasn't anchored is beyond me.  I suppose there may have been a mm of daylight between his chest and hand but sure didn't look like it.  

I suspect they'll have a putter-length rule soon.  These guys are now, officially cheating.

[newtogolf]

36 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Just saw Langer's par-saving, tournament-winning, 12-foot putt.  How anyone can claim he wasn't anchored is beyond me.  I suppose there may have been a mm of daylight between his chest and hand but sure didn't look like it.  

I suspect they'll have a putter-length rule soon.  These guys are now, officially cheating.

I was watching him today too, the distance between his hand and chest is microns at best.  The USGA probably doesn't want to stir the pot since only a few are doing it but this seems to go against the spirit of the anchored putting rule.  

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, Gunther said:

Just saw Langer's par-saving, tournament-winning, 12-foot putt.  How anyone can claim he wasn't anchored is beyond me.  I suppose there may have been a mm of daylight between his chest and hand but sure didn't look like it.  

I suspect they'll have a putter-length rule soon.  These guys are now, officially cheating.

 

56 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I was watching him today too, the distance between his hand and chest is microns at best.  The USGA probably doesn't want to stir the pot since only a few are doing it but this seems to go against the spirit of the anchored putting rule.  

You guys know he's not wearing a spandex skin tight shirt, right?

He knows the rule and he's a professional golfer with, afaik, integrity (or at least no known situations to show he lacks it) ... So if he says he's not anchored, why not take his word for it?

[mvmac]

1 hour ago, Golfingdad said:

 

You guys know he's not wearing a spandex skin tight shirt, right?

He knows the rule and he's a professional golfer with, afaik, integrity (or at least no known situations to show he lacks it) ... So if he says he's not anchored, why not take his word for it?

Yeah looks to me like the left hand is touching the shirt but not his chest. I'm certainly trusting that these guys are abiding by the rules, for the reasons you mentioned and like I said earlier, there are other people watching what they do. Another competitor isn't going to "let it go" if they feel Langer or McCarron is cheating, especially is it's costing them money.

Here's the description of the rule.

[Gunther]

5 hours ago, mvmac said:

Yeah looks to me like the left hand is touching the shirt but not his chest. I'm certainly trusting that these guys are abiding by the rules, for the reasons you mentioned and like I said earlier, there are other people watching what they do. Another competitor isn't going to "let it go" if they feel Langer or McCarron is cheating, especially is it's costing them money.

Here's the description of the rule.

Yes, I understand and I should have been more clear.  I've seen Langer putt a few times this year and each time it was obvious to me there was a gap.  I only saw the one putt yesterday and I could not see that gap.  As I mentioned, it might have been there but it sure looked to me like he has moved his hand closer to his chest than the way he began the year.

 I don't thnk it's unreasonable to think that as the pressure increases, they slip back into a comfort zone, perhaps without even conscious intent.  A putter length rule would eliminate this.

[newtogolf]

8 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

 

You guys know he's not wearing a spandex skin tight shirt, right?

He knows the rule and he's a professional golfer with, afaik, integrity (or at least no known situations to show he lacks it) ... So if he says he's not anchored, why not take his word for it?

Until this week or last week Langer would perform his practice swings with his hand anchored and then move it away from his chest slightly when he putted.  He's now supposedly not anchoring his hand on practice swings but the hand looks so tight to his chest, as seen in the pictures it's hard to believe that at some point it doesn't become anchored.  In the top picture his hand is deep in his chest as part of his hand and wrist is blocked from view and his arm seems to be to the inside of his pectoral muscle.  

Fair point about his integrity but it just looks questionable.    

[Golfingdad]

4 hours ago, Gunther said:

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that as the pressure increases, they slip back into a comfort zone, perhaps without even conscious intent.

OK, this is a fair point.  In fact, now that you mention it, this actually crossed my mind yesterday too.  He's not that far removed from having been anchored for years and years and years, so I could TOTALLY see him accidentally hitting a putt anchored when the pressure is the highest and his mind is focused elsewhere.

HOWEVER, these are all of the same guys that will assess themselves a penalty when they nudge their ball even when they know nobody else saw it.  So if the question came up and they were asked, I see no reason to think that they would lie about it.

Except McCarron - he just looks shifty.  (I'm kidding.  He does look shifty though)

[Gunther]

11 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

OK, this is a fair point.  In fact, now that you mention it, this actually crossed my mind yesterday too.  He's not that far removed from having been anchored for years and years and years, so I could TOTALLY see him accidentally hitting a putt anchored when the pressure is the highest and his mind is focused elsewhere.

HOWEVER, these are all of the same guys that will assess themselves a penalty when they nudge their ball even when they know nobody else saw it.  So if the question came up and they were asked, I see no reason to think that they would lie about it.

Except McCarron - he just looks shifty.  (I'm kidding.  He does look shifty though)

I don't want to impugn Langer's integrity, he's in the top 50 golfers of all time, I would say.  So, yes, I'd like to think he would penalize himself.  My point is, why not put a max length of, say 40" on the putter, where all question would be erased?

I understand equipment rules come with their own set of controversies but in my mind, it's an issue that needs to be resolved.

[Golfingdad]

9 minutes ago, Gunther said:

My point is, why not put a max length of, say 40" on the putter, where all question would be erased?

Are you sure you want to see Langer or McCarron tying to putt like Michelle Wie???  I know I don't. ;)

[newtogolf]

1 minute ago, Golfingdad said:

Are you sure you want to see Langer or McCarron tying to putt like Michelle Wie???  I know I don't. ;)

LOL, I was thinking the same thing, we'd be getting booty shots of Langer and Mayfair trying to anchor their shorter putters.  40' would probably still be too long you'd have to limit it to 36".  

[mvmac]

3 hours ago, Gunther said:

I don't want to impugn Langer's integrity, he's in the top 50 golfers of all time, I would say.  So, yes, I'd like to think he would penalize himself.  My point is, why not put a max length of, say 40" on the putter, where all question would be erased?

I think that would be tough to do because people are different sizes. What if you have a tall guy that wants to arm-lock (Kuchar style), 40" won't be enough. Same kind of thing if people want to use a side-saddle stroke.

When it comes to this issue, it seems the USGA would rather focus on the method than an equipment ban/regulation.

[DrvFrShow]

The broomstick length is great for seniors and people with back problems. It allows us to actually practice putting for more than a few minutes. I don't think Langer is breaking the rules. He's not wearing a spandex top. He's allowed incidental contact with his clothing. He just can't create an anchor point. 

[dchoye]

1 hour ago, DrvFrShow said:

The broomstick length is great for seniors and people with back problems. It allows us to actually practice putting for more than a few minutes. I don't think Langer is breaking the rules. He's not wearing a spandex top. He's allowed incidental contact with his clothing. He just can't create an anchor point. 

I am in favour off the long putter too but I really think Langer is anchoring his hand or wrist close to the body.  I really think the rules committee went too far and should have banned the belly putter not the sternum putter.  Though I think the long putting guys that stick the butt end in their armpits and chin are should be banned as per rule    

[colin007]

What I don't like is how his forearm is CLEARLY anchored to his chest. It's close enough to his wrist/hand to make me feel like he's totally not within the spirit of the rule, and I know that's not saying much for some nobody like me on an innerwebz forum to say, but it doesn't pass my smell test. At all.

[Golfingdad]

39 minutes ago, colin007 said:

What I don't like is how his forearm is CLEARLY anchored to his chest. It's close enough to his wrist/hand to make me feel like he's totally not within the spirit of the rule, and I know that's not saying much for some nobody like me on an innerwebz forum to say, but it doesn't pass my smell test. At all.

Again ... They're not wearing skin tight spandex so nothing is CLEAR.

Also, a forearm anchored to his body wouldn't be against the spirit of the rule, it would be against the letter of the rule.  (See note 2 under the pic of Langer a few posts back)

So it would be blatant cheating.

[boogielicious]

Langer in spandex is not an image I want to see. ?