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The Death of the Low Irons


BrofessionalGolfer
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46 minutes ago, BrofessionalGolfer said:

The bottom line is that 95% of us are not even close to professionals meaning we cannot have phenomenal ball striking for every club. We need to find what works and stick to it until we have the time to develop other aspects of our game. Irons work very well for some. If it ain't broke don't fix it! 2 iron off a tee on a par 5? If you can get a par or bogey out of it, why not right?

 

Par yes, bogey no.

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7 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

It doesn't really matter. The new 3 and 4 irons hit as far as the old 2 irons so you aren't losing out on anything.

Back in the previous century, my MacGregor MT irons featured a 21° 2i and a 24° 3i.  I used the 2i primarily as a driving iron.

For current irons: I have my Callaways, plus a set of SLDRs with a 21° 4i. Because the SLDR 4i has a "speed slot" in the sole, it launches deadly straight and high off a tee. (But, it's a bit iffy off the fairway).

A 6-HDCP guy I play with ditched his 4i last summer, and now uses 2H and 4H as bridge clubs into his irons. He says he gets more control and versatility out of the Hs than out of long irons.
---------------
BTW, @Brofessional, where all did you hunt for new iron sets? I did a quick check of four different OEMs, and all have at least two current iron models with 3-irons, which range in loft from 19° to 21°.

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At age 64 I have replaced the 2 thru 6 irons with hybrids.  I am a relatively high HCP (17) and 20 years ago I hit a decent 2 iron but the 2h at my current age is longer and more accurate than my 2i ever was.  I was also never a very good golfer and never generated a ton of club head speed  (I started at age 40) and the hybrids have been a great boost to my game.  For better golfers that can control and work a 2 or 3 iron better than a hybrid I understand the attraction, and suspect that some manufacturers will continue them. But for many of us, today's 2 and 3 irons belong in the closet.   It is a business and consumer demand will be the major impact on clubs offered.

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If PGA Tour players are putting in hybrids and more GI type long irons into their set then amateurs have no reason to be prideful about putting one in their set if it helps their game.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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The goal of the game is to get the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible, not play with blades or play with a 2 iron. My 4i is deadly off the tee, but I cannot hit it off the fairway except during the summer months when the fairways are almost like a mat.

Julia

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FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
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I don't have a problem with the sets lacking the long irons, most people want something different at that loft anyway, it's just smart to omit a club or two that many don't want.

That being said I'll take the long iron any day, modern GI 3 and 4's are a pleasure to hit, I'd love to try a 2, they basically are hybrids in a way.

I have one hybrid in my bag, and it's probably not making the cut this year, so I say death to the hybrid.

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22 hours ago, utrinqueparatus said:

I think that it is possibly worthwhile checkin the lofts of the irons concerned, The M2 Tour Irons have a 3 iron set at 18.5 and a 4 iron set at 20.5. The M2 4 Iron is set at 19.5. Historically a one iron was set at 16, a 2 iron set at 19. So in fact the M2 Tour 3 iron is in fact a 'strong' 2 iron while the M2 4 Iron is in fact a slightly weak 2 Iron. With regard to 2 irons and 3 irons not being available you might care to check out the Mizuno range as they have 1, 2 and 3 irons. The MP15 has a 3 iron set at 21, the MP25 has a 3 iron set at 21, the MPH5 has a 1 iron at 16, a 2 iron at 18 and a 3 iron at 21.

I think the M2 4i is actually 19°, I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that.

Long irons in a traditional iron form aren't completely dead, they're just on life support. In GI and SGI offerings they are well, deceased. In player's irons the 3-iron is still around, but very, very few OEMs make a 2-iron for a "set", I think Titleist does in the 716 CB and T-MB (though T-MB for a set is a special order), Tour Edge in their CB ProH line. Very few make a 2 iron as part of a "traditional" set even on custom order.

Most "2-irons" these days are iron-like hybrids, driving iron looking clubs. Mizuno makes the MP-H5 which you can make a whole set if you wish (they even have a 1-iron!) Taylormade with the UDI offerings from 1-5 iron, Tour Edge with the CB Pro and CB Pro Tungsten, Callaway with their Apex UT (the original "lumpy").

So yes @BrofessionalGolfer traditional low irons are on life support. they are pretty much dead in GI and SGI models, and hanging on by a thread in the player's models. 

As a side note, most GI models still offer a 3-iron as a custom option, both most OEMs, don't make a 3-iron in an SGI model.

@iacas, I'm not promoting anything, I was just using some examples.

What's in Shane's Bag?     

Ball: 2022 :callaway: Chrome Soft Triple Track Driver: :callaway:Paradym Triple Diamond 8° MCA Kai’li 70s FW: :callaway:Paradym Triple Diamond  H: :callaway: Apex Pro 21 20°I (3-PW) :callaway: Apex 21 UST Recoil 95 (3), Recoil 110 (4-PW). Wedges: :callaway: Jaws Raw 50°, 54°, 60° UST Recoil 110 Putter: :odyssey: Tri-Hot 5K Triple Wide 35”

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I could never hit a 3-4 iron off the deck for chit until I bought m2's. Now I have a 4 iron I can hit with confidence and took my 3 hybrid out of the bag because I can hit the 4 iron better and just as far.

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On 4/3/2016 at 3:46 PM, DrvFrShow said:

The lofts are stronger on all the clubs now. The 5 iron in most sets is the same loft as the 1984 Titleist 3 iron. The 4 iron is the same loft as the 1984 Titleist 2 iron - that's 20 degrees. My 6 iron is the same loft as the 1984 Titleist 4-iron, and is very close to the 4 iron in the Ping i20 set. Plus the manufacturers lowered the CoG and are using tungsten weights for forgiveness. So do we really need the 2 and 3 irons anymore? Not really. 

Most sets used to come with two or three clubs that few people could hit: the 2,3, and 4 irons. This was back before the days of modern tech. Even today, not many people can hit a 4 iron off the deck. Your average golfer will opt for a hybrid instead of a 5 iron.

 

Here's your answer! The club companies jacked up the lofts and increased the lengths of clubs, all so they could claim that you could hit their 4 iron farther than other people's 4 irons. What they didn't bother to tell you was that they jacked up their 4 iron into a 3, and eventually into nearly a 2! If the rest of the set was to follow suit, the original 2 iron would be jacked up into an old fashioned "driving iron" or "0 iron"! And how many people could actually hit that?

When I first got good at the game and bought my first set of decent clubs, I had no problem at all hitting a 2 iron. Of course that set featured "muscleback" blades, and persimmon woods with heads so tiny most golfers wouldn't believe it!

If you can find it, get the book "The Search for the Perfect Golf Club" by Tom Wishon. He explains it all, including why you suddenly need a "gap wedge" (where did the gap come from?), and why it might be even more important for high handicappers to be fitted for clubs than touring pros!

Edited by Buckeyebowman
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I still like my 3- and 4-iron (Yonex E-zone blades). I tried a hybrid 3 a couple of years ago, I kept hooking with that club. After a few rounds I took it out and never went back. 

Don

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Never had any luck with a 3i. I carry a ping g15 5 wood with 18.5* loft. Absolutely love this club, never afraid to hit it into a green. Awesome ball flight, I've grown comfortable with it and hit it with a slight pull most of the time.

I also carry a ping g20 hybrid, 23*, but I swear I can only hit it off a tee. It's primarily a par 3 club from 185 - 195 yds. Nothing more.

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2 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Here's your answer! The club companies jacked up the lofts and increased the lengths of clubs, all so they could claim that you could hit their 4 iron farther than other people's 4 irons. What they didn't bother to tell you was that they jacked up their 4 iron into a 3, and eventually into nearly a 2! If the rest of the set was to follow suit, the original 2 iron would be jacked up into an old fashioned "driving iron" or "0 iron"! And how many people could actually hit that?

When I first got good at the game and bought my first set of decent clubs, I had no problem at all hitting a 2 iron. Of course that set featured "muscleback" blades, and persimmon woods with heads so tiny most golfers wouldn't believe it!

If you can find it, get the book "The Search for the Perfect Golf Club" by Tom Wishon. He explains it all, including why you suddenly need a "gap wedge" (where did the gap come from?), and why it might be even more important for high handicappers to be fitted for clubs than touring pros!

@BrofessionalGolfer the loft getting lower, killing the SGI and GI 2 iron off, and putting the GI 3-iron on life support I'll agree with. But player's irons lofts have pretty much stayed the same for about 15 years.

The main reason, is SGI/GI irons have had to decrease loft is the Lower CG, COR, and MOI... And the high launch, low spin mantra of drivers, getting moved over to the irons.

I'll give you a personal example. With my Tour Edge EXI 7-iron (31° loft), my launch is around 21°, spin around 6000 rpm, I carry it 170 yds. on average, with an M2 7-iron (28.5° loft) my launch is similar around 21°, but my spin is around 3800 rpm, I carried it 195 yds on average... Not enough spin for me. But hell with those number.. I could carry that 6-iron as my longest iron, play D, 4w, 7w... and play 6 wedges...

Long irons aren't dead, they're just repurposed, as fire pokers, charcoal stirrers, lightning rods, and TV antennas... 

On a serious note, In player's models there are still at least 3 OEM's making a 2-iron in a set form, and a bunch in utility form, most are making 1, 2, and 3-irons in utility form... I still own a set of Tour Edge V-Blades with traditional lofts, that have a 1,2, and 3 iron, but they are from 2000.

What's in Shane's Bag?     

Ball: 2022 :callaway: Chrome Soft Triple Track Driver: :callaway:Paradym Triple Diamond 8° MCA Kai’li 70s FW: :callaway:Paradym Triple Diamond  H: :callaway: Apex Pro 21 20°I (3-PW) :callaway: Apex 21 UST Recoil 95 (3), Recoil 110 (4-PW). Wedges: :callaway: Jaws Raw 50°, 54°, 60° UST Recoil 110 Putter: :odyssey: Tri-Hot 5K Triple Wide 35”

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In the Cobra King Pro line that Ricky Fowler uses, they make from 2 - GW. The 2 iron is 19 degrees. The 3 iron is 21 degrees. The 7 iron is 34 degrees. The PW is 46 degrees. You can get them in pure MB, a flow set 3-6 CB, 7-PW (MB); or all CB. The next line up is the King Tech Forged an it's all CBs and is a graduated set one loft stronger on the 3 iron (19 degrees); 7 iron 30 degrees. 

So they still make 3 irons even in the GI sets. The F6 set has a 18 degree 3 iron available for those who can hit one. That would be strictly a driving iron for the likes of me.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

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11 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

In the Cobra King Pro line that Ricky Fowler uses, they make from 2 - GW. The 2 iron is 19 degrees. The 3 iron is 21 degrees. The 7 iron is 34 degrees. The PW is 46 degrees. You can get them in pure MB, a flow set 3-6 CB, 7-PW (MB); or all CB. The next line up is the King Tech Forged an it's all CBs and is a graduated set one loft stronger on the 3 iron (19 degrees); 7 iron 30 degrees. 

So they still make 3 irons even in the GI sets. The F6 set has a 18 degree 3 iron available for those who can hit one. That would be strictly a driving iron for the likes of me.

Julia,

I know in GI sets they still make a 3-iron, SGI sets however they are just about dead... Tour Edge EXd has an 18° 3-iron available, I'm sure there are a few others in current production. As far as SGI irons in current production, 2 and 3 irons are a dead. GI sets however, a lot of companies still offer a 3-iron as a custom option... I think the Wilson C200 irons still have a 3-iron available...

What's in Shane's Bag?     

Ball: 2022 :callaway: Chrome Soft Triple Track Driver: :callaway:Paradym Triple Diamond 8° MCA Kai’li 70s FW: :callaway:Paradym Triple Diamond  H: :callaway: Apex Pro 21 20°I (3-PW) :callaway: Apex 21 UST Recoil 95 (3), Recoil 110 (4-PW). Wedges: :callaway: Jaws Raw 50°, 54°, 60° UST Recoil 110 Putter: :odyssey: Tri-Hot 5K Triple Wide 35”

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I recently aquired an iron set with a 2i and 3i in it. I have not used a 2i in probably 20+ years. When I did I was pretty decent with it.

These clubs are probably 20 years old that I acquired.  I hit them the other day just for fun. Had a baby slice when using them. Then I remembered something from long ago, that when using 2 irons and such, that they should be swung with an aggressive, no fear swing. I stepped up my swing speed and the baby slice turned into a nice fade.

These low lofted clubs wont make it as my normal gamers. Just too awkward feeling. I have other, easier to swing clubs that do the same thing. That said, I will keep them around for the fun of it. 

I think every golfer should keep a low lofted iron around for fun. That, or  for humility. 

Edited by Patch

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I have a 4 and a 3 in my set.  I can hit them both but the distances are off.  My 4iron goes only about as far as my 5.  I'm not real sure about the 3 because I hit it so rarely . .but it's even less. 

Modern clubs have sort of changed my approach to the game.  Before hybrids, I would just pull the 3 or the 4 and miss short.  Now, with hybrids, I have the option of missing long, left or right, too. 

So, these days I usually just pull the 5. If I can't get there, I can't get there, lol. 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Patch said:

I recently aquired an iron set with a 2i and 3i in it. I have not used a 2i in probably 20+ years. When I did I was pretty decent with it.

These clubs are probably 20 years old that I acquired.  I hit them the other day just for fun. Had a baby slice when using them. Then I remembered something from long ago, that when using 2 irons and such, that they should be swung with an aggressive, no fear swing. I stepped up my swing speed and the baby slice turned into a nice fade.

These low lofted clubs wont make it as my normal gamers. Just too awkward feeling. I have other, easier to swing clubs that do the same thing. That said, I will keep them around for the fun of it. 

I think every golfer should keep a low lofted iron around for fun. That, or  for humility. 

Low lofted clubs not your gamers, huh? So do you use them to pick up snakes in the weeds?

What's in Shane's Bag?     

Ball: 2022 :callaway: Chrome Soft Triple Track Driver: :callaway:Paradym Triple Diamond 8° MCA Kai’li 70s FW: :callaway:Paradym Triple Diamond  H: :callaway: Apex Pro 21 20°I (3-PW) :callaway: Apex 21 UST Recoil 95 (3), Recoil 110 (4-PW). Wedges: :callaway: Jaws Raw 50°, 54°, 60° UST Recoil 110 Putter: :odyssey: Tri-Hot 5K Triple Wide 35”

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4 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

Low lofted clubs not your gamers, huh? So do you use them to pick up snakes in the weeds?

You'd be surprised how many snakes I have actually removed from greens and other areas when I encounter one of those critters. Long irons are a great tool for handling snakes. I have even used irons to remove weeds. 

 

6 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

Low lofted clubs not your gamers, huh? So do you use them to pick up snakes in the weeds?

 

In My Bag:
A whole bunch of Tour Edge golf stuff...... :beer:

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