Gender Divide in Tournaments Shortchanges Fans and the Sport [NYTimes]

[nevets88]

Some interesting ideas, especially playing simultaneously and alternate days.

 

Quote

Why do boys and girls play sports together only to be segregated as adults? There would seem no better way to promote sport and dispel sexist presumptions than through combined-gender competitions, though the strategic alliance recently formed by the Professional Golfers Association and the Ladies Professional Golf Association comes across as faintly retro, given the forces fomenting revolution in the sports world.

In February, the P.G.A. Tour of Australasia teamed with Australian Ladies Professional Golf to hold the Victorian Open, an event in which men and women played simultaneously on two courses, in separate competitions, for equal prize money.

The 36-hole cut was the top 50 and ties, and there was also a 54-hole cut. “It’s a great concept, and it worked,” Webb said. “And I think the crowd loved it, too, because they don’t have to choose who to follow. If they sit at one green, they can see men and women coming through.”

Another possibility is holding a combined event on one course, with the men and the women playing on alternate days. “I guess having a day in between play is fine, because that’s what happens in the Grand Slams of tennis,” McIlroy said. Whatever form it takes, he added, he’s amenable to combined men’s and women’s events.

Sorenstam, a 10-time major champion, said that early in the tournament week, she was approached on the range by one of her fellow competitors, who snidely offered to show her how to hit a slice. Sorenstam, unimpressed by the remark, said she told the player she didn’t need any help shaping shots.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/sports/golf/gender-divide-in-tournaments-shortchanges-fans-and-the-sport.html?ref=golf

[saevel25]

I think it would be awesome to have more mixed events between PGA & LPGA Tour members. For it to work I think they would have to play split tees. There is just too much of an advantage in distance. 

Lexi Thompson averages 285 (#1 female in driving distance). That would be 129th on the PGA Tour. 

 

[newtogolf]

It would be fun for an exhibition but I don't see the PGA Tour agreeing to play for the same money as the LPGA if it means the PGA Tour players make less money than they normally would.  Also, if they are playing on alternate days then they really aren't playing together are they?  

[Jeremie Boop]

Will the women play on men's conditions or will the men play on women's conditions? Unless I'm mistaken, aren't courses generally set up more difficult for the men's tournaments? I agree it may be something novel to watch as an exhibition style tournament, but what's the point if it's an actual competition? How often would the women even be in the running? Do they set up handicaps *super weird thought when discussing pros* for the women so they are on more level footing? I don't know, just doesn't seem very practical.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Jeremie Boop

[newtogolf]

4 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Will the women play on men's conditions or will the men play on women's conditions? Unless I'm mistaken, aren't courses generally set up more difficult for the men's tournaments? I agree it may be something novel to watch as an exhibition style tournament, but what's the point if it's an actual competition? How often would the women even be in the running? Do they set up handicaps *super weird thought when discussing pros* for the women so they are on more level footing? I don't know, just doesn't seem very practical.

I think it would be bad for the LPGA because such a direct comparison like that would show how far off the LPGA is overall from the PGA Tour.  

[DeadMan]

8 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Will the women play on men's conditions or will the men play on women's conditions? Unless I'm mistaken, aren't courses generally set up more difficult for the men's tournaments? I agree it may be something novel to watch as an exhibition style tournament, but what's the point if it's an actual competition? How often would the women even be in the running? Do they set up handicaps *super weird thought when discussing pros* for the women so they are on more level footing? I don't know, just doesn't seem very practical.

I think the idea is that the men and women play the same course, but don't compete against each other. I.e., the men compete against the men and the women against the women. It would have to be a pretty unique course, but I don't think it would be that difficult.

I think a good starting point would be a mixed sex Ryder Cup-type event. That could be a lot of fun.

[Jeremie Boop]

Just now, DeadMan said:

I think the idea is that the men and women play the same course, but don't compete against each other. I.e., the men compete against the men and the women against the women. It would have to be a pretty unique course, but I don't think it would be that difficult.

I think a good starting point would be a mixed sex Ryder Cup-type event. That could be a lot of fun.

I see, that would make more sense if they weren't competing against each other. I must have misunderstood the concept. Even so, it's not really very interesting to me as I'm not a fan of the LPGA. I can see out someone who does follow both tours would be interested in it though.

[jamo]

It sounds to me like the idea is basically doing the 2014 US Open and US Women's Open at Pinehurst #2, but on a more compressed schedule. I don't recall there being any huge issues with the course those weeks, though I could be mistaken.

[newtogolf]

1 minute ago, jamo said:

It sounds to me like the idea is basically doing the 2014 US Open and US Women's Open at Pinehurst #2, but on a more compressed schedule. I don't recall there being any huge issues with the course those weeks, though I could be mistaken.

That's how I read it, they either play together on the course at same time or alternate days.  I do remember reading they changed the course setup for the LPGA that went beyond just moving up the tee boxes.  

[Avalanche]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I think it would be awesome to have more mixed events between PGA & LPGA Tour members. For it to work I think they would have to play split tees. There is just too much of an advantage in distance. 

Lexi Thompson averages 285 (#1 female in driving distance). That would be 129th on the PGA Tour.  

 

This would be FUN to watch!  But it also seems like LPGA players don't spin the ball back towards the hole as much.  They might have to change the hole positions too from the normal PGA set up with so many short sided holes, and holes guarded by hazards.  

[Golfingdad]

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I think it would be awesome to have more mixed events between PGA & LPGA Tour members. For it to work I think they would have to play split tees. There is just too much of an advantage in distance. 

Lexi Thompson averages 285 (#1 female in driving distance). That would be 129th on the PGA Tour. 

 

Just to reiterate what @jamo said ... they're not talking about the men and women competing against each other, just competing near each other.  If you're a fan of both tours, this is a really exciting idea.  Instead of watching the men play in Palm Springs on CBS from 12-4 pm and then watching the tape delay of the women competing in the Bahamas or wherever at 7-11pm on Golf Channel, we could be watching them both on CBS at the same time.  Just to continue my Palm Springs example, the men could be on Nicklaus Tournament course on Saturday while the women are on Stadium Course, and then on Saturday they switch.

The alternating groups idea is even more intriguing.

Would it work?  I don't know, but I like the thinking.

[SavvySwede]

When would they hold it?

1. The PGA Tour schedule has many big events the top players need to attend to maintain their ranking.

2. Extended season and playoffs.

3. LPGA usually  has their big tournamends on different weeks so they have to compete with the PGA Tour for viewership.

Only solution would be to merge two already existing events. Good luck getting the title sponsors to agree to that.

[saevel25]

17 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

When would they hold it?

I think the beginning of the season. October thru January. The LPGA doesn't have a major till June. This would be a good dead area where I think they would be willing to do something more relaxed before the major's kick in and things get serious. 

[Golfingdad]

17 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

Only solution would be to merge two already existing events. Good luck getting the title sponsors to agree to that.

Don't think that would be hard at all.  It seems like every year there is a tournament or more that is in need of a new title sponsor.  My PS example, as a matter of fact, switched from Humana to Careerbuilder just this year after switching to Humana just about 3 years ago.  The Tampa Tournament has been Valspar for a couple of years now but for 3 or 4 years before that it, seemingly, had a new sponsor every year.

And I imagine the women have the same issue with title sponsors too.

[InTheRough]

I don't really watch the LPGA but this seems like an interesting idea and would really like to see this.  I don't know if I'd want to see it every week but it could be a good idea for a tournament during the year kind of like they do with the Pro Am at Pebble or the tournament where they use Stableford scoring.  Play the tournament at the beginning of the year or after the season wraps up in the fall instead of interrupting the season when it is in full swing, and when the prize money isn't as high anyway.  The combined tourney, and how much i'm sure the PGA and LPGA would hype it, could probably even draw some big sponsors to get the prize money higher than it would have been at the smaller tournament.

[Buckeyebowman]

Oh, good Lord! More PC bullcrap! Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against lady golfers as long as they can play. I've played with ladies any number of times on local courses, and was a regular attendee at an LPGA tourney held in our area years ago! Enjoyed all circumstances immensely.

But, this sounds like an invention that doesn't need inventing! It sounds kind of like the "Battle at Bighorn" or whatever it was called, when Tiger teamed up with Annika, and David Duval (notice how I needed to state his last name?) teamed up with,,,,,,uh,,,,umm, errr, ahhhh, a lady pro who was ranked near the top at the time! Notice how quickly her name popped into my head? She was an Aussie, and quite a skilled player on the ladies tour.

And what does Annika do? In a "Scotch Foursomes" format, after Tiger puts it on the green, she has the first putt. This is on a course set up for PGA pros. Annika putts it downhill past the hole, off the green, and about 30 yards down the fairway! After Tiger pitches it back up below the hole, they manage to get down for a double bogey.

As they are walking to the next tee, Tiger remarks to Annika, I'm sure unaware that the mikes they were wearing were still "live", "Wow! Did we hack the sh*t out of that hole or what?" I don't really think we need any more of that on television.

If women want to compete with men in areas like childbirth, they'll swamp us! Athletically they have no shot. Let men's sports be men's sports and women's sports be women's!