Why can't we learn or train ourselves to hit the long(est) ball?

[Chilli Dipper]

The golf swing is a complex, full-body movement, but so much of the prevailing thought about the golf swing that we've been taught in recent years has stressed simplifying that movement into as few moving parts as possible. However, junior players starting out aren't taught to limit their range of motion and keep control; their taught to throw their bodies into the swing. Bubba Watson has won two Masters because he swings like a child.

I've been relatively inactive in golf for the last few years, but I'm starting to pick it up again. Around the time of the Masters, I started watching highlights of Jack Nicklaus on YouTube. Jack's swing has been described as perfect, yet he does so many things that I've been told not to do.

His head sways back on the takeaway, and he lifts it at the top of the backswing. His trailing elbow flies well away from his body. He moves his legs a ton; he picks up the heel of his lead foot well off the ground. He hangs well back through impact. He rarely completes his swing to a full finish with an iron in his hand. But he's the greatest player who ever lived, and despite being a man of average height and build, he revolutionized the power game.

It's such a dynamic, effective swing. As I've practiced lately, I'll hit shots trying to emulate Jack. I'm not concerned about keeping my head still, my elbow close, my legs quiet, and my feet grounded. I strike the ball better that way. Stomping that heel back into the ground to trigger the downswing is a much easier power move than the squat Tiger has always done, and that so many young players do now. But I'm not confident enough to play that way on the course yet.

[disaster]

7 hours ago, Patch said:

My guess is that genetics is the only limiting factor in anything a human does. 

This is actually very true for fast movements. The human muscle is built up of white and red muscle fibers. The white fibers are the ones which are responsible for fast movements, the red ones are responsible for "strong" movements (i.e. lifting heavy). You cannot really train white fibers as much as you can do that with red fibers. Furthermore, the ratio between those two fibers is genetically determined. This means that someone who naturally has a lower amount of white fibers will never be able to perform as fast a movement as someone else. This does not only account to golf of course, but also e.g. for sprinting.

I think that this is something people underestimate a lot.

[David in FL]

The same reason that most of us can't train ourselves to dunk a basketball or hit a  95 mph fastball.

[jkelley9]

I'm 28, I have a swimmer's shoulder and chest area and have excellent rotation flexibility and strength in my upper body and core. I'm 5'7" on a good day (lol). I'm also 155-158 lbs on the golf course.

I'll preface this by saying "I am not a very good golfer yet," but my drives go considerably further when I rely on that flexibility but NOT that strength in my arms. Yes, the coil strength helps get me that clubhead speed... but my ball goes MUCH further if I'm not trying to smash the s*** out of it. A good club release is what's adding 30-40 yards to my drives. If I try to hammer it, it will only go 220-230.

I'm carrying 240-250y consistently now. And that's with the crap balls I use lol.

The guys on tour are completely fitted ball to head, loft, lie, shaft, length, grip and probably even more. I haven't gone near that level of fitting yet. I don't know about your level of fitting. 

So in summary, I think the length of their drives is more 90% flexibility training than strength training, but that may be my naive opinion. And more about the mechanic of the swing than the strength as well.

Edited May 2, 2016 by jkelley9

[Dave2512]

Amateurs even the physically gifted ones are poor ball strikers in general. That is as much an obstacle as anything. If I shoot 81 and 34 or those strokes are putts of the 47 others several are less than full swing shots. Say I hit 8-9 GIR on those holes chances are the best full shots of the day are those 20 ish shots and maybe a couple are close to my potentially best.

On a good day my best drive might be 315 but my worst would be just better than 200. I didn't suddenly lose a bunch of speed and if video was taken the swings would probably look identical but where the clubface struck the ball wouldn't be the same. I work a 50-60 hour a week job. I can't spend the time needed to play much better than I do now. Crappy ball striking is something I'll have to live with. And I know it doesn't get much better. The guys I played with in league with lower handicaps than mine weren't playing a very high level of golf either, nobody would mistake them for a tour pro.

[DrvFrShow]

It's fairly simple, really. We're not willing or are unable to put in the work necessary to hit the longest ball we can. It requires that we have a very repeatable swing that makes near perfect contact with the ball every time. Start at about age 8 - 12, get a qualified instructor, and hit 1000 balls a day. 

[divot dave]

On 5/1/2016 at 5:31 PM, Valleygolfer said:

Hopefully they will throw in the meaning of life while they are at it...

42 is the answer you're looking for

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(number)#Popular_culture

[mvmac]

On 5/1/2016 at 1:34 PM, Valleygolfer said:

Maybe age is going to keep me from hitting it 300 once every round or maybe I just don't have the swing no matter what...I know distance isn't everything but...it does help you score better...and it seems like a lot of us are working on this component whether we admit it or not.

Mechanics are important. You can be as fit or as flexible as a pro athlete and not "optimize" your distance. Pros hit it far mostly because they have good pivots (full turn, rotate and use the ground) and good impact alignments (inline impact, hit it solid).

Having said that I've been doing some speed training the last few weeks and seeing some gains (2-3mph) but proper mechanics is very important as it relates to distance.

[Dave2512]

No doubt. I see young guys out there with MMA builds that can't hit the ball for chit.

[Valleygolfer]

39 minutes ago, mvmac said:

Mechanics are important. You can be as fit or as flexible as a pro athlete and not "optimize" your distance. Pros hit it far mostly because they have good pivots (full turn, rotate and use the ground) and good impact alignments (inline impact, hit it solid).

Having said that I've been doing some speed training the last few weeks and seeing some gains (2-3mph) but proper mechanics is very important as it relates to distance.

Are you able to maintain your mechanics will trying to increase speed Mike or are just swinging your normal swing and getting more speed?

[Jeremie Boop]

I think it's not just about their flexibility/strength/swing speed. It's about how they get the max out of the club because they hit the sweet spot almost without fail. If they had the same exact swing you or I have, they'd still hit it further than we do because they'd be hitting that spot on the club that maximizes the distance all the time while we hit all around the face.

[colin007]

Stevie Wonder could find the sweet spot better than I can. 

[DaveP043]

I'd say its all of the above.  I think the longest hitters are genetically gifted with a certain amount of athletic ability and hand-eye coordination.  I think they work hard to develop the strength and flexibility specific to golf.  I think they work hard to develop proper mechanics, in order to get the most club-head speed possible out of their genetic talent and strength and flexibility, as well as producing consistent proper AOA and face orientation and centered contact and all the rest to get the maximum possible out of their incredible clubhead speed.  Its simple, really.   

[Dave2512]

Sure but there is an athletic peak. When I was in 10th grade I could run a sub 5 second 40 and two hand dunk a ball at 5'10". That window was short maybe early 20's.

Now jogging makes me feel like gravity is slamming my feet into the ground and I'd be surprised if I could leap high enough to brush the bottom of the net. Still don't run into many younger athlete types that can out golf me. My driving is poor because of swing flaws not because I lack speed. 

[WUTiger]

• Arnold Palmer had very strong arms and shoulders.
• Jack Nicklaus had very strong back and legs, and decent upper body.
• Sam Snead was flexible beyond belief.
• Juan "Chi Chi" Rodriguez weighed maybe 140 pounds, but moved so quickly he regularly reached 270 yards with a wooden-headed driver.

All had exemplary physical assets to exploit.

Part of the performance has to do with raw athletic ability. Nicklaus, for example, received Ohio State scholarship offers in both golf and basketball. Hale Irwin, besides being a golfer. was an All-Big 8 defensive back for the Colorado football team. (For you Millennials, the Big 8 formed the nucleus of the Big 12, even though Colorado exited the Big 12 a few years back).

Exemplary golfers need to find the swing they have inside  - usually by finding the right mix of dedication and instruction.

Then, besides setting goals, there's the whole issue of practicing correctly.

That said, golf instructors warn against paralysis by analysis. Some golfers make a list of a dozen things they need to do well in the 1.4 to 2.2 seconds their golf swing lasts. Sorry, but the human brain can' t process all that. You have to ingrain the basic movement.

As a golf pro once said, "Sooner or later, you have to step up there and hit the ball!" // And, this was a guy who always gave me some video clip summaries at the end of each lesson.

If you can find a decent swing, and "step up there and hit the ball," maybe you can hit the longest ball - or at least a long one, hopefully that lands in play. If you're deficient in a couple of the above-mentioned swing necessities, good luck!

[mvmac]

8 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

Are you able to maintain your mechanics will trying to increase speed Mike or are just swinging your normal swing and getting more speed?

I'm doing this. Not thinking about mechanics (other than making sure I make a decent backswing), just trying to swing as fast as I can.

 

[JetFan1983]

9 hours ago, mvmac said:

 

Having said that I've been doing some speed training the last few weeks and seeing some gains (2-3mph) but proper mechanics is very important as it relates to distance.

Same. I like mapping, but you gotta balance it with anti-mapping too.