Flaw in Donald Trump's "aspirational" theory for golf.

[Lihu]

58 minutes ago, jamo said:

Golf should be "for" whomever the free market dictates can afford to play it.

Yes, I completely agree with this statement. In many places there are cheaper courses, and that's what most people will play and what the market dictates.

My personal preference is to play on a "goat track". When I Played a round at Bandon Dunes I ended up having more fun at the "links" course right by our hotel which cost about a seventh the price of the off season price at Bandon. . .

 

42 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I think golf is already aspirational, in that some of us, perhaps many of us, aspire to improve.  We aspire to play special courses on holiday.  Some of us aspire to be able to join a private club.  What Mr. Trump doesn't want to have to deal with at his properties is the everyday middle-class daily-fee-course golfer, and he's priced his golf courses to financially exclude them.  Many business succeed by selling at least the image of exclusivity, by telling people that if they can afford "this" they're special somehow, and that's what Trump is selling.  

I remember when this came out, I checked to see how well his courses were doing.  I checked the tee sheet for both the Scotland and Ireland courses, and  very very few tee times were taken.  I just now checked the availability of times at his Aberdeen course for  Friday, and found we can book a 4ball at 8:30, 8:45, 10:00, 0:15, and 11:00, among others.  Not exactly packing them in, is he?  At Doonbeg in Ireland, the online booking system was disabled at about this time last year, perhaps it was embarrassing.  He's salesman, and he gets off by telling everyone how well he's doing, how smart he is, all that stuff.  Wasn't it Andre Aggassi that told us that "image is everything"?

That's a very good point.

 

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

I can't even go to MacDonalds for $10, and you want to be able to play golf for that?

Of course not, it's pretty expensive. http://www.bandondunesgolf.com/golf/golf-courses/old-macdonald

 

[GolfLug]

I joined a private CC recently for $175/month on a promotion (good for 2 years). I play a max of 4 rounds a month and beat balls 2-3 times a week. So not bad replacement for my $50-$70 weekend cost when I bounced around.  

Anyway, the seniors there play almost everyday (there are 4-5 leagues with 10-20 in each).  That's less than $10 round when in season. Even in winter you lose 4-5 weeks a year at the most.

The CC is not Trump elite but not exactly a goat track either. In addition clubhouse food is remarkably good and affordable.

I am sure my CC is not unique. There are a few in most of the US with similar cost structure. Full membership, weekend membership, weekday membership, walking only, single, family, all kinds of convenience cost/play structure. More you play, less it costs per play, but you gotta play enough to break the value barrier. It gets real cheap then.  

It ain't your father's elite golfing times anymore. 

[DaveP043]

We have all kinds of private clubs in our area, from my own little club in the country to very exclusive and pricey clubs, including Trump National.  A few take great pride in just how expensive they are.  Those are the ones I specifically wouldn't care to join.  Its funny, though, when we play interclub matches with them, most of the guys are just regular golfers like me, just with more money.

[GolfLug]

17 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

We have all kinds of private clubs in our area, from my own little club in the country to very exclusive and pricey clubs, including Trump National.  A few take great pride in just how expensive they are.  Those are the ones I specifically wouldn't care to join.  Its funny, though, when we play interclub matches with them, most of the guys are just regular golfers like me, just with more money.

Off topic completely, man your course is pretty but is just straight up war. Man vs. wild. You can't just go there and shoot up a relaxing/boring 9 hole after work, like ever. I am still scarred from playing the green on 3rd and the entire freaking 12th. Ha ha. No wonder other tame flat courses don't ever scare you.  

[Chilli Dipper]

28 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

We have all kinds of private clubs in our area, from my own little club in the country to very exclusive and pricey clubs, including Trump National.  A few take great pride in just how expensive they are.  Those are the ones I specifically wouldn't care to join.  Its funny, though, when we play interclub matches with them, most of the guys are just regular golfers like me, just with more money.

Jack Nicklaus picked up the game at Scioto Country Club in Columbus, which is ranked among the top 50 courses in America, and the closest thing to an old-guard, blueblood establishment as you'd find in that part of the country. Tiger Woods picked up the game at the military-base courses of Southern California, almost a complete contrast to Jack's upbringing. Both became the greatest players of their generation, and golf would not be anywhere near as popular as it is today without talented young players like them in their primes.

Golf isn't cheap; that doesn't mean that golf is elitist. Sure, there is a lot of money involved in catering to players at the top of the socio-economic ladder, but that's not the end-all in discussing how healthy the game is.

[DaveP043]

11 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Golf isn't cheap; that doesn't mean that golf is elitist. Sure, there is a lot of money involved in catering to players at the top of the socio-economic ladder, but that's not the end-all in discussing how healthy the game is.

Going back to the interview with Trump that  @Lihu referenced, the big-money part of golf is the only part of it that Trump is interested in.  He equates the health of golf as a whole to the health of his involvement in it.  What he won't admit is that if the only golfers were the folks with enough money to play his courses, golf would cease to exist.  It would be financially unfeasible to produce clubs and balls for so limited a clientele, you wouldn't sell it to TV, it would just fade away.  Golf will remain healthy only as long as a significant cross-section of people remain involved in it.

[No Mulligans]

Golf doesn't have to be a rich mans sport.

I pay $29.99 a month to be in a "Players Club" at Tecolote Canyon, an executive course.  With that I can walk 18 holes before 8 a.m. on weekdays for $5.  It is definitely not wall to wall country club perfect, but the greens are good and the course is interesting (Robert Trent Jones design).  The fairways can be rough.  That's fine with me, I love it.  I tell myself the fairways are how golf is suppose to be, closer to the original concept of golf.

[billchao]

5 hours ago, krupa said:

"I want to be rich so I can play golf," said no one ever.

I guess we've never met.

[Chilli Dipper]

22 minutes ago, billchao said:

I guess we've never met.

How many millions did you have to make before you decided it was time to pick up this golf thing?

[billchao]

5 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

How many millions did you have to make before you decided it was time to pick up this golf thing?

Huh? It doesn't say "I want to be rich so I can start to play golf." The original statement can be interpreted a number of ways.

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

Golf doesn't have to be a rich mans sport.

I pay $29.99 a month to be in a "Players Club" at Tecolote Canyon, an executive course.  With that I can walk 18 holes before 8 a.m. on weekdays for $5.  It is definitely not wall to wall country club perfect, but the greens are good and the course is interesting (Robert Trent Jones design).  The fairways can be rough.  That's fine with me, I love it.  I tell myself the fairways are how golf is suppose to be, closer to the original concept of golf.

I really appreciate "American Golf" and their "Players Club" program, best company around and they are promoting golf for everyone. It's totally the opposite of elite golf.

There's even talk about a universal membership for under $80 per month to let you have the benefits of all their courses.

I'll play Trumps courses once a year or something like that, but his mentality can't be profitable.

[Dan42nepa]

Early 20th century golf wasnt affordable for everyone.. They had other things they needed like food and shelter if they had a job.

[Papa Steve 55]

Socialist golf, does Bernie know about this?

[Lihu]

6 minutes ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

Socialist golf, does Bernie know about this?

Nah, it's too profitable for him.

[Wally Fairway]

9 hours ago, Gator Hazard said:

Where is MacDonalds?  

Not MacDonalds, McDowell's

 

[gregsandiego]

10 hours ago, Lihu said:

I pulled up an article published a year ago where it stated that Donald Trump thinks that golf is something to aspire to. . .http://fortune.com/2015/07/01/donald-trump-golf-rich-elite/

Seniors have a lot of time to play, but generally can't afford $475/round ***.My feeling is that $10 rounds should always be available to seniors. That's also something to aspire to, and it's something to help make their lives better in their golden years.

 

***as if there are many of us who could afford that kind of price

That was pre-primary let alone the general.

No doubt Trump will pivot to pick up some of the disenchanted Bernie crowd. Free golf for everyone.

[natureboy]

If he can find enough customers at high rates, that's his choice for his business. For very wealthy people there's often a desire to mix with other wealthy people - partly for business opportunities and to enjoy perks like lots of personal customer service and relatively uncrowded courses. That's a market segment he may want to target / specialize in. Golf as a whole can't  survive on that business model exclusively, though.

Interestingly, golf likely originated as a pastime of bored sheperds or others working on their Shinty swings while roving the links, then became middle class, then attracted the elite due the challenge (and available time). The public links of Scotland where the game grew up may have allowed for an unusual amount of social mixing for the time, which may actually have been part of the sport's appeal.

Edited May 12, 2016 by natureboy

[Rainmaker]

To me, cheap golf the the best golf.  I rarely pay more than 25 bucks a round - usually 10-15.  There's an executive 9 hole that I play often (not "often", lol) for 10-12 bucks or else I watch GolfNow for the last minute "hot deals". 

I find the 40-80 dollar courses, while nicer . .are usually crowded and the rounds take forever.  I've never been on a really "expensive course". 

I agree with Trump on one point - in my opinion, we try to hard to "grow the game".  People should just come to golf . .I like that.  But . .there should always be cheap golf available.  If you look hard enough and lower your standards enough - there usually is.