Drawing Driver has messed up entire game

[boogielicious]

4 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

It seems to me that for some cases it might make sense if for nothing more than to get the student to understand the feel of the hook.

Nah, I hate hooks. It has been my miss. For me, a hook is caused by me being too steep from A4 to 5 and then OTT at A6. It would also cause a slice if the face is open. So the fault is the same and only face angle at impact changes the flight.

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Nah, I hate hooks. It has been my miss. For me, a hook is caused by me being too steep from A4 to 5 and then OTT at A6. It would also cause a slice if the face is open. So the fault is the same and only face angle at impact changes the flight.

This is what I was thinking as well. Trying to hit a hook didn't work for me nor anyone else I know. It's a band aide fix to make the golfer think he's improving because he feels like he's doing the opposite thing.

I keep feeling that's the reason why many golfers go through 2 or more years of grueling swing changes and doing tons of drills to get rid of an OTT swing is so that their misses are more consistent. An inside out swing seems to be much more forgiving of minor variations.

OTT swings are more natural for your body to make and more powerful, which is why so many people seem to do it. Good for "distance", but horrible for scoring. It's just way too unstable when you can go from a pull to a slice with just a simple face change.

The biggest improvement people can make is to get rid of that OTT mess, and start swinging correctly. They're likely to lose a club or two distance, but score better.

[Josh90]

Yes so I guess I didn't explain myself to well earlier. I've gotten myself to swing inside to out with my driver but thought my iron shot was still ok but changing the driver swing has seemed to changed my iron swing as well as seen from all the dead pull shots I'm hitting with them. So my main question then was if I should try to swing inside to out with the irons as well

And as to the ball flight of my driver that people were wondering about it will start to the right of my target and slowly curve back into the fairway. And I also play the ball farther back in my stance which seems to help me be more consistent so about 3 or four inches forward of my belt buckle instead of the inside of the left foot

[Lihu]

51 minutes ago, Josh90 said:

Yes so I guess I didn't explain myself to well earlier. I've gotten myself to swing inside to out with my driver but thought my iron shot was still ok but changing the driver swing has seemed to changed my iron swing as well as seen from all the dead pull shots I'm hitting with them. So my main question then was if I should try to swing inside to out with the irons as well

You explained very well in your OP, the answer is yes. Use the same swing for all clubs.

[sirhacksalot]

5 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Nah, I hate hooks. It has been my miss. For me, a hook is caused by me being too steep from A4 to 5 and then OTT at A6. It would also cause a slice if the face is open. So the fault is the same and only face angle at impact changes the flight.

All it really did for me, as well, was increase my miss.  Instead of missing right with a slice, i was pull slicing, blocking, and when i hit the occasional push hook i thought it was a good shot. 

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, sirhacksalot said:

All it really did for me, as well, was increase my miss.  Instead of missing right with a slice, i was pull slicing, blocking, and when i hit the occasional push hook i thought it was a good shot. 

Agree, this is more or less the general consensus of all of my playing partners. The root cause should be fixed before playing with different face angles.

[Golfingdad]

5 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Nah, I hate hooks. It has been my miss. For me, a hook is caused by me being too steep from A4 to 5 and then OTT at A6. It would also cause a slice if the face is open. So the fault is the same and only face angle at impact changes the flight.

Yeah, I get that.  Maybe I'm thinking more about swing path than actual result of the shot.  I'm thinking of somebody like my dad, who has about the most over the top, out to in swing you can feasibly have.  He's "typical" in that he goes back somewhat neutral or shallow even, and then steepens it like nobody's business on the way down - I'm not kidding when I say he's pushing 15-20 degrees (maybe even more) leftward path sometimes.

If somebody could take him and get him to understand what it feels like to go back steep and come back shallow, I can see that benefiting him.  And if in doing so, that produces severe curve (temporarily) in the opposite direction that he's used to, I don't see that that would be a bad thing.  So I guess what I am saying is that I don't necessarily mean that intentionally teaching a hook is good, but "inadvertently" teaching a hook during the process of getting the student to feel the proper swing path wouldn't be bad.

Or something along those lines. 

[Lihu]

3 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Yeah, I get that.  Maybe I'm thinking more about swing path than actual result of the shot.  I'm thinking of somebody like my dad, who has about the most over the top, out to in swing you can feasibly have.  He's "typical" in that he goes back somewhat neutral or shallow even, and then steepens it like nobody's business on the way down - I'm not kidding when I say he's pushing 15-20 degrees (maybe even more) leftward path sometimes.

If somebody could take him and get him to understand what it feels like to go back steep and come back shallow, I can see that benefiting him.  And if in doing so, that produces severe curve (temporarily) in the opposite direction that he's used to, I don't see that that would be a bad thing.  So I guess what I am saying is that I don't necessarily mean that intentionally teaching a hook is good, but "inadvertently" teaching a hook during the process of getting the student to feel the proper swing path wouldn't be bad.

Or something along those lines. 

Ah, I get it. "You have to break eggs to make an omelette" type of thing. Makes sense. . .

[sirhacksalot]

7 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

If somebody could take him and get him to understand what it feels like to go back steep and come back shallow, I can see that benefiting him

Absoultely, the problem that i see is, that for most of us wannabe golfer weekend warrior types, its not dictated in steep vs shallow, but in to out, out to in.  Steep to shallow allows you to change the swing "plane" without changing the swing "direction" trying to swing in to out to me is just swinging right, so block, then block it more, then "you should go after it closing the face more" is said, then i get super blocky hook and everybody says good shot and I try to repeat that all day. 

Edited June 13, 2016 by sirhacksalot

[newtogolf]

11 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Yeah, I get that.  Maybe I'm thinking more about swing path than actual result of the shot.  I'm thinking of somebody like my dad, who has about the most over the top, out to in swing you can feasibly have.  He's "typical" in that he goes back somewhat neutral or shallow even, and then steepens it like nobody's business on the way down - I'm not kidding when I say he's pushing 15-20 degrees (maybe even more) leftward path sometimes.

If somebody could take him and get him to understand what it feels like to go back steep and come back shallow, I can see that benefiting him.  And if in doing so, that produces severe curve (temporarily) in the opposite direction that he's used to, I don't see that that would be a bad thing.  So I guess what I am saying is that I don't necessarily mean that intentionally teaching a hook is good, but "inadvertently" teaching a hook during the process of getting the student to feel the proper swing path wouldn't be bad.

Or something along those lines. 

 

6 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Ah, I get it. "You have to break eggs to make an omelette" type of thing. Makes sense. . .

It goes with the feel isn't real, ultimately we have to relate a feel to the ball flight.  Over compensating is a common practice in undoing poor habits.  

[Rainmaker]

24 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

 

It goes with the feel isn't real, ultimately we have to relate a feel to the ball flight.  Over compensating is a common practice in undoing poor habits.  

Yeah - everything I learn (just about). . whether I teach it to myself or get it from my instructor, I end up exaggerating first.  Like recently I realized using my core muscles in a different way was critical for me to reduce my swaying so for the next 2 weeks I'm doing "superman ab crunches" in my downswing, lol.  Until I realize - hey, that's sorta the right idea but that's *too* much of it. 

It was the same thing for my slicing/hooking.  Now that I think back on it - my instructor never told me to hit a draw or a hook . . he said "do these things (x, y and z) and you will see that the ball will be going left all the time . . then we'll fix that".   Which I interpreted as "learn to move it left". 

[mvmac]

14 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

It seems to me that for some cases it might make sense if for nothing more than to get the student to understand the feel of the hook.

Feeling the opposite is one thing but trading in one miss for another doesn't make sense.

The other problem is most instructors that give that kind of advice just tells the student to strengthen their grip, swing out to the right, and roll or close the face. It's just a band aid and the hook is more of a pull hook.

[metbid]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 0:51 PM, Josh90 said:

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm not positive about my swing path but I'm 95% sure I've changed my swing path. I got my fiance to videotape my practice swing which I know isn't exactly the same but it's definitely and inside to outside path. I'm getting hooks and straight pushes now with some mixed in nice draws. But with my irons it's different now because my swing feels different so should I try to draw the irons also?

There is a possibility that you could now be either slightly 'hooding' your clubs (face too closed at contact0 or over-turning your wrist at contact ending up with the face contacting the ball slightly outside.  I had a similar problem and found out I was over-turning my wrists, thinking I had to square up the face at contact. The feel I now have is that I am hitting the ball on an inside contact.

[Josh90]

On 6/13/2016 at 11:46 AM, Lihu said:

You explained very well in your OP, the answer is yes. Use the same swing for all clubs.

Thank you now my next question is that with an inside to out swing I am trying to accomplish a draw with my shot. Let's say I want to hit it straight with no curve to it what would I have to modify to achieve this?

[Lihu]

6 minutes ago, Josh90 said:

Thank you now my next question is that with an inside to out swing I am trying to accomplish a draw with my shot. Let's say I want to hit it straight with no curve to it what would I have to modify to achieve this?

It's very difficult to hit a perfectly straight shot all the time.

Plus, the slight push-draw is a relatively straight shot. Draw can be anything from something that looks straight to a full on hook. If you are coming from inside out without exaggerating anything your shots should be relatively straight. For reference, I hit a very strong push-draw, and am working on making the shots less curvy. My son used to hit a very strong push-draw but worked hard on getting a relatively straight ball flight, but it is still a push-draw just not that obvious.

 

Take a look at these:

I'm also likely the last person on this site to be asking for this advice.

[mvmac]

5 hours ago, Josh90 said:

Thank you now my next question is that with an inside to out swing I am trying to accomplish a draw with my shot. Let's say I want to hit it straight with no curve to it what would I have to modify to achieve this?

Basically you would match the face with the path while having the face aim where you want the ball to end up. It's very difficult to do and not a consistent pattern.

I'd recommend you start a member swing thread. Will be easier for people to help you by seeing what you're actually doing.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 6/13/2016 at 10:55 AM, Josh90 said:

Yes so I guess I didn't explain myself to well earlier. I've gotten myself to swing inside to out with my driver but thought my iron shot was still ok but changing the driver swing has seemed to changed my iron swing as well as seen from all the dead pull shots I'm hitting with them. So my main question then was if I should try to swing inside to out with the irons as well

And as to the ball flight of my driver that people were wondering about it will start to the right of my target and slowly curve back into the fairway. And I also play the ball farther back in my stance which seems to help me be more consistent so about 3 or four inches forward of my belt buckle instead of the inside of the left foot

As Lihu said, basically the same swing shape for all clubs. Why have different swing for different types of clubs? Golf is hard enough without that complication.

One thing an in to out swing will do is shallow out your clubhead's approach to the ball. With the irons this can result in you hitting some fat shots. Keep this in mind the next time you go to the range. But I think that changing your swing shape from out to in, to in to out is a good step.

Out to in promotes a steep angle of attack. It has it's applications. Like if you're trying to get at the back of a ball sitting in heavy rough. And you can still hit it fat swinging that way, and if you do it's liable to be a real chunkarama! Ever notice on the par 3 tees how the divots that point left of the green are deeper than the ones that point at, or to the right, of the green? Some serious gouging going on!

Ever notice the pros making those exaggerated "out to in" practice swings on the golf telecasts? What they are trying to remind themselves of is to not swing too much in to out. Better players generally guard against the miss to the left. Tiger, even at his peak, dreaded the miss left. Something like 90% of high handicap amateurs miss right with the slice!

So, I like that you're changing your basic swing shape to something more suited to better golf. But it's just one step. After "in to out", should come "in, to square, to in".

[Josh90]

Ok so I have gone to the range again since this problem began and now the iron shots are good but my driver swing has now turned into a blocked shot it just goes straight right or it goes right and then curves more to the right so I'm completely lost and what to do now. This game is so frustrating!!!! Haha and I know getting my swing filmed would help but I haven't been able to yet so once again any advice would be greatly appreciated