Orlando Gay Night Club Shooting

[Elmer]

11 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Assault weapons are illegal for private citizens to purchase in the US, which means Jim Trumm is very ignorant.  

He also seems to forget the major recent fail by TSA during competency testing to prevent weapons from getting on airplanes.  

But the gist remains the same.
after 9/11 many things were banned from Airplanes & airport security was tightened.

After 20 KIDS we slaughtered in Newtown with an AR-15, NOTHING!!!!
Orlando- NOTHING!!!!

So I guess what we can take from this is, When some brown skinned foreigners mess up our vacation travel we can make changes.

But the deaths of children and Homosexuals are not worth addressing the AR-15 issue!

[newtogolf]

12 minutes ago, Elmer said:

But the gist remains the same.
after 9/11 many things were banned from Airplanes & airport security was tightened.

After 20 KIDS we slaughtered in Newtown with an AR-15, NOTHING!!!!
Orlando- NOTHING!!!!

So I guess what we can take from this is, When some brown skinned foreigners mess up our vacation travel we can make changes.

But the deaths of children and Homosexuals are not worth addressing the AR-15 issue!

You're really minimizing 9/11 and the effect of crashing jets into the World Trade Center aren't you?  A life is a life, none should be valued any higher than another, fact is a lot more people died in 9/11 than the mass shootings.  

There's nothing to address, an AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle, there are numerous other semi-automatic rifles and handguns that terrorists will choose if you ban the AR-15.  

[Elmer]

3 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

You're really minimizing 9/11 and the effect of crashing jets into the World Trade Center aren't you?  A life is a life, none should be valued any higher than another, fact is a lot more people died in 9/11 than the mass shootings.  

There's nothing to address, an AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle, there are numerous other semi-automatic rifles and handguns that terrorists will choose if you ban the AR-15.  Democrats are always pushing to ban guns but they're also the ones pulling the trigger.

You are right!!!

Nothing to address, not a thing!
Everyone move on with their lives. Nothing to see here. No changes to be made. No lives to be saved. This is the new Status Quo!!!!
Today we are shinning examples of Human Beings!
I hope everyone shoots a low round!

[GolfLug]

I don't own a gun but have kids and I admit that every now and then in certain moments I have discussed with my wife if we had a gun locked in a gun safe out of reach of my kids I would feel safer. I can see how having a visible gun for protection can deter potential conflict but if you have a gun and somebody wants to kill you anyway they can just walk up from behind and shoot you. How do you protect yourself from someone you cannot see and is just bent on ending you?

I don't see how this fellow was trying to 'persuade' anybody from anything. He engaged in a gun battle with the police so apparently he was not 'deterred' by opposing guns either.   

Humans have always harmed each other since beginning of time. But used to be that if you wanted to kill many, it took many. The difference is with modern tools one nutcase can do the job of many in a matter of seconds.

 

[14ledo81]

15 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I don't own a gun but have kids and I admit that every now and then in certain moments I have discussed with my wife if we had a gun locked in a gun safe out of reach of my kids I would feel safer. I can see how having a visible gun for protection can deter potential conflict but if you have a gun and somebody wants to kill you anyway they can just walk up from behind and shoot you. How do you protect yourself from someone you cannot see and is just bent on ending you?

I don't see how this fellow was trying to 'persuade' anybody from anything. He engaged in a gun battle with the police so apparently he was not 'deterred' by opposing guns either.   

Humans have always harmed each other since beginning of time. But used to be that if you wanted to kill many, it took many. The difference is with modern tools one nutcase can do the job of many in a matter of seconds.

 

 

You don't.  If the bad guy really wants to get you (and he is "good" at being bad), he is going to do it regardless.

 

34 minutes ago, Elmer said:

But the gist remains the same.
after 9/11 many things were banned from Airplanes & airport security was tightened.

After 20 KIDS we slaughtered in Newtown with an AR-15, NOTHING!!!!
Orlando- NOTHING!!!!

So I guess what we can take from this is, When some brown skinned foreigners mess up our vacation travel we can make changes.

But the deaths of children and Homosexuals are not worth addressing the AR-15 issue!

 

As far as I know guns are banned from Airplanes.  Are you suggesting to ban box cutters and liquid over 3 ounces from nightclubs?

[Jeremie Boop]

28 minutes ago, Elmer said:

You are right!!!

Nothing to address, not a thing!
Everyone move on with their lives. Nothing to see here. No changes to be made. No lives to be saved. This is the new Status Quo!!!!
Today we are shinning examples of Human Beings!
I hope everyone shoots a low round!

That picture could have easily showed a 12 gauge shotgun, a semi-automatic handgun, or any of the other various guns that are available on the market. Posting that picture for shock value doesn't change the fact that the AR-15 is nothing special, it's a low caliber semi-automatic rifle that "looks cool".  In all honesty, I'll tell you that if that guy walked in with a shotgun loaded with buckshot he could have easily caused much more destruction that what he did with that rifle. Stop acting like that object is evil and getting rid of it is the solution. The solution is enforcing the existing laws better, not banning the AR-15.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Jeremie Boop

[Braivo]

Why do we always end up talking about guns? Is that easier to blame than radical religious beliefs that encourage hatred? Guns, bombs, box cutters ... doesn't matter. There is a group of people out there that want us dead, all of us. White, black, gay, straight ... doesn't matter. When did this country become so weak? We turn on each other at a moment's notice while the enemy keeps on fighting. 

[Dave2512]

The country isn't weak. People don't expect to be involved in a mass shooting at 2AM in a club with an on-duty cop. I am not going to change the way I live because there are nuts out there. Violence happens even when great precautions are taken. This guy slipped through the system and lots of people are dead and hurt. Other than stopping him before he did it what else could have been done.

This isn't a gun control thing. ISIS needs to be obliterated to prevent morons born here from taking up the cause. Time to stop ****ing around and decimate them.

[Jeremie Boop]

2 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Why do we always end up talking about guns? Is that easier to blame than radical religious beliefs that encourage hatred? Guns, bombs, box cutters ... doesn't matter. There is a group of people out there that want us dead, all of us. White, black, gay, straight ... doesn't matter. When did this country become so weak? We turn on each other at a moment's notice while the enemy keeps on fighting. 

It happens because people can't understand why things like this happen, so the latch on to the tool that was used and exclaim "this is the problem!!" It's hard to grasp the concept that there are people out there who wish to cause harm and will do so by any means necessary, it's easy to say "this wouldn't happen if we didn't have guns".

[newtogolf]

3 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Why do we always end up talking about guns? Is that easier to blame than radical religious beliefs that encourage hatred? Guns, bombs, box cutters ... doesn't matter. There is a group of people out there that want us dead, all of us. White, black, gay, straight ... doesn't matter. When did this country become so weak? We turn on each other at a moment's notice while the enemy keeps on fighting. 

Because the media under plays the pledge of allegiance to ISIS the terrorist took and talks more about the "Assault Rifle" that was used to kill the victims.  Our own POTUS refuses to say "Radical Islam" and his supporters are quick to call you a racist or bigot if you talk about how Sharia law (which is practiced by all members of radical Islam) promotes the mistreatment of women and killing of homosexuals.   

6 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

The country isn't weak. People don't expect to be involved in a mass shooting at 2AM in a club with an on-duty cop. I am not going to change the way I live because there are nuts out there. Violence happens even when great precautions are taken. This guy slipped through the system and lots of people are dead and hurt. Other than stopping him before he did it what else could have been done.

This isn't a gun control thing. ISIS needs to be obliterated to prevent morons born here from taking up the cause. Time to stop ****ing around and decimate them.

 well said!

[Lihu]

14 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I don't own a gun but have kids and I admit that every now and then in certain moments I have discussed with my wife if we had a gun locked in a gun safe out of reach of my kids I would feel safer. I can see how having a visible gun for protection can deter potential conflict but if you have a gun and somebody wants to kill you anyway they can just walk up from behind and shoot you. How do you protect yourself from someone you cannot see and is just bent on ending you?

I own guns and have never had any issue with my kids pulling them out and shooting themselves.

The best way to prevent this kind of violence is at the source. By this, I mean teaching that killing is wrong from the beginning of every child's life. Even killing a fetus is wrong. There is no justification for murder.

 

14 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

I don't see how this fellow was trying to 'persuade' anybody from anything. He engaged in a gun battle with the police so apparently he was not 'deterred' by opposing guns either. 

In the end, the gunman didn't think that killing is wrong and would have found another means to do something similar. In this case he had ISIS to look up to and justify his actions.

There are many evil people in this world and it just emphasizes the need to keep a constant vigil on our freedoms. We need to be able to protect ourselves, and our loved ones.

 

14 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Humans have always harmed each other since beginning of time. But used to be that if you wanted to kill many, it took many. The difference is with modern tools one nutcase can do the job of many in a matter of seconds.

Gun laws make it easier for criminals. . .

There are strict gun laws in China, and yet they have mass knife/sword killings.

 

Just now, 14ledo81 said:

You don't.  If the bad guy really wants to get you (and he is "good" at being bad), he is going to do it regardless.

As far as I know guns are banned from Airplanes.  Are you suggesting to ban box cutters and liquid over 3 ounces from nightclubs?

Right.

[Chilli Dipper]

Any attempt to have a discussion about gun control in this country is shut down by the pro-gun side of the issue saying that more restrictive gun laws won't stop bad people from getting their hands on weapons, and how any proposed laws wouldn't have stopped this shooting or that shooting. I reject the notion that, because there is no panacea to the sensational gun violence that has robbed Americans of their peace of mind, we should do nothing.

Personally, I think the big step in the right direction would be smart guns. I can unlock my phone with my fingerprint, and I can unlock my car by standing next to the driver's side door with the key fob in my pocket. There's no reason that technology couldn't or shouldn't work with firearms, and if smart guns wouldn't completely eliminate the problem of guns being put in the wrong hands, it would make it a lot harder for them to get those guns to work.

Of course, the NRA hates the idea of smart guns. That  type of baseless opposition is a prime example why nothing ever gets done.

[Silent]

21 hours ago, nevets88 said:

We’re 164 days into 2016. We’ve had 133 mass shootings.

Shocking, absolutely shocking. Maybe not the time nor the place for a discussion like that, but it makes you wonder why these kind of things happen pretty much on a daily basis in the USA. Too much individualisation in society, mental health sector not 'good enough', too easy to get your hands on a gun, copy-catting each other, lack of government control... ? Etc. etc. Can be any of those things, can be a couple of reasons, can be something completely else... but something has to change or it will continue like this I guess.

22 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

This isn't a gun control thing. ISIS needs to be obliterated to prevent morons born here from taking up the cause. Time to stop ****ing around and decimate them.

I'm not interested in another gun law discussion so I won't go there. But I doubt that out of the 133 mass shootings USA apparently had in 2016 already, a lot of them were ISIS related. In other words: stop ISIS and you stopped maybe a few mass shootings. Great, so you numbers drop to like 125 mass shootings in 160 days? So no, ISIS is not thé problem. It's a problem. 

 

 

 

 

[newtogolf]

2 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Any attempt to have a discussion about gun control in this country is shut down by the pro-gun side of the issue saying that more restrictive gun laws won't stop bad people from getting their hands on weapons, and how any proposed laws wouldn't have stopped this shooting or that shooting. I reject the notion that, because there is no panacea to the sensational gun violence that has robbed Americans of their peace of mind, we should do nothing.

Personally, I think the big step in the right direction would be smart guns. I can unlock my phone with my fingerprint, and I can unlock my car by standing next to the driver's side door with the key fob in my pocket. There's no reason that technology couldn't or shouldn't work with firearms, and if smart guns wouldn't completely eliminate the problem of guns being put in the wrong hands, it would make it a lot harder for them to get those guns to work.

Of course, the NRA hates the idea of smart guns. That is a prime example why nothing ever gets done.

The way you accuse pro-gun people of shutting down discussions about banning guns in these instances is no different that the way open borders people shut down discussions about closing our borders, exiling of illegal aliens and refusing to accept refugees from ISIS countries.  

The gun didn't act on it's own, it was operated by an individual that pledged allegiance to ISIS, hated gay people and wanted to kill them.  He could have exploded a bomb, drove through the building in a big truck or used poison gas.  

The discussion shouldn't be about the method of killing but why these individuals are in this country, why the FBI decided he wasn't a threat and how we stop these people from killing more innocents.  

[Gator Hazard]

7 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Any attempt to have a discussion about gun control in this country is shut down by the pro-gun side of the issue saying that more restrictive gun laws won't stop bad people from getting their hands on weapons, and how any proposed laws wouldn't have stopped this shooting or that shooting. I reject the notion that, because there is no panacea to the sensational gun violence that has robbed Americans of their peace of mind, we should do nothing.

Personally, I think the big step in the right direction would be smart guns. I can unlock my phone with my fingerprint, and I can unlock my car by standing next to the driver's side door with the key fob in my pocket. There's no reason that technology couldn't or shouldn't work with firearms, and if smart guns wouldn't completely eliminate the problem of guns being put in the wrong hands, it would make it a lot harder for them to get those guns to work.

Of course, the NRA hates the idea of smart guns. That  type of baseless opposition is a prime example why nothing ever gets done.

How do you get rid of all the "dumb guns"?  Smart guns are great but won't solve the problem. 

[Lihu]

10 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Any attempt to have a discussion about gun control in this country is shut down by the pro-gun side of the issue saying that more restrictive gun laws won't stop bad people from getting their hands on weapons, and how any proposed laws wouldn't have stopped this shooting or that shooting. I reject the notion that, because there is no panacea to the sensational gun violence that has robbed Americans of their peace of mind, we should do nothing.

Personally, I think the big step in the right direction would be smart guns. I can unlock my phone with my fingerprint, and I can unlock my car by standing next to the driver's side door with the key fob in my pocket. There's no reason that technology couldn't or shouldn't work with firearms, and if smart guns wouldn't completely eliminate the problem of guns being put in the wrong hands, it would make it a lot harder for them to get those guns to work.

Of course, the NRA hates the idea of smart guns. That is a prime example why nothing ever gets done.

He purchased those weapons legally. So, he would have had the ability to shoot them.

The issue is not the guns themselves as much as the desire for someone to go out and kill this many people.

 

6 minutes ago, Silent said:

Shocking, absolutely shocking. Maybe not the time nor the place for a discussion like that, but it makes you wonder why these kind of things happen pretty much on a daily basis in the USA. Too much individualisation in society, mental health sector not 'good enough', too easy to get your hands on a gun, copy-catting each other, lack of government control... ? Etc. etc. 

He could have taken a Scimitar, Broadsword or Katana and killed or injured just as many people. Regardless, he was trained to kill, and had the motive to kill.

The problem is the fact that he had an organization to look up to to even think of killing so many people.

 

Off topic

There was a person in Los Angeles who was stopped with explosives and weapons attempting to perform a similar crime during the Gay Pride events West Side. It's horrible that people can think it's right to kill people like this.

Taking military action against ISIS will turn them into martyrs. It would be better to let the world see the evil that they actually represent. They are evil, and we are not and should not be.

[phan52]

21 hours ago, newtogolf said:

A tragic loss of lives for no reason.  This is a very different world than our parents grew up in.  My thoughts and prayers go out to all the friends and families of the victims.  

When will the media learn to stop rushing to report details that aren't verified and that Americans cannot legally buy "assault rifles" (defined as full automatic weapons) anywhere in the country.  The AR in AR-15 does not stand for "Assault Rifle".  It stands for the company that developed it, ArmaLite Rifle.  

Your definition. I respectfully disagree.

[newtogolf]

2 minutes ago, phan52 said:

Your definition. I respectfully disagree.

Not mine, the book definition, not the medias.  

Quote

as·sault ri·fle

noun

 

1. a rapid-fire, magazine-fed automatic rifle designed for infantry use.

The version our soldiers carry are full automatic.