Broke down football player looking for help!!!

[Das_onionknight]

I want to start off this post by saying that I understand that for me losing weight and increasing flexibility are important keys to improving my swing. 

One of the reasons why I joined was to get some real advice instead of hoping that someone may have the same experience as I did and randomly surfing the net for that person. So, I am 6 foot 7 inches tall and weight close to 400 lbs, obviously much better for football than golf. While playing I sacrificed much of my body for football. My ankles, knees, and back have all been damaged beyond repair and my arms have taking a beating as well as an offensive linemen. 

I have a good golf swing but I feel like it could be better. I can drive it consistently 200 yards with a driver and with a lot of research and trial and error pretty straight. I know that with my height and strength I should be able to drive it farther. 

I am working on flexibility because more than my natural strength flexibility is one key to a faster not harder swing. But what can I do to get better with limited turn in ankles, knees, and back? I simply cannot groove and in to out swing properly with my injuries. A major closed stance has helped with the driver. But a closed stance has hurt my fairway woods and iron shots which have been accurate in the past but is not anymore. So I have reverted back to my working swing for my fairways and irons, but lack of the ability to do a full turn is affecting distance. Lack of turning also affects my shot shaping attempts.

I also know that my bigger belly is hurting me, so weight loss will help there. (40 pounds gone far, used to be 440lbs).

Overall my main question is what can I do to become better with my distances with lower body injuries that can't be fixed like my weight and flexibility can be with time. I want to hit further and be able to shot shape. Am I just dreaming or can this become a reality for me?

(I will post swing video as soon as I get to the range with my buddy)

[tshapiro]

A video would be helpful

[Das_onionknight]

23 minutes ago, tshapiro said:

A video would be helpful

For sure, just got to get someone to go to the range with me other than my 3 year old daughter. I feel like if I took a video in my back yard without the feel of hitting a ball it wouldn't be the same. But it is coming. I was just wondering or asking if someone had any generalized comments, maybe something I had not thought of researching yet. 

[Buckeyebowman]

Can it become a reality for you? Absolutely! It will just take some time and research. First off, congrats on starting to lose the weight. That will take a lot of strain off your hips, knees and ankles, as well as your lower back if you have a big gut.

As far as limited turn goes, way back in the day there was a PGA Tour pro named Doug Sanders. The running joke about him was that he could swing in a phone booth! I don't think he got his hands shoulder high in his backswing.

I would look to work on making a solid strike on the ball. Many times a shorter swing will help accomplish this. You should be able to hit a driver farther than 200, but I wouldn't obsess about that. It's more important to keep it in the short grass. As far as different stances for different clubs, go ahead! Your swing is a work in progress, so whatever works for the particular club you're swinging.

Maybe, as you progress on your own, you may come to a couple of points. The point where you might want some one on one instruction, and maybe get fitted for clubs. At 6'7" many would automatically assume you need longer than standard clubs. Ain't necessarily so! It all depends on your "wrist to floor" measurement. I read a book called "In Search of the Perfect Golf Club" by Tom Wishon, a professional club designer who designed and built the last set of clubs Payne Stewart played. He's also built clubs for George Gervin and other NBA stars. In spite of being 6'10", 6"11", some of those guys actually needed shorter than standard clubs! Their arms were so long that their hands were down around their knees!

So just keep working at it. Don't get in a rush, just take one small step at a time. I wish you luck.

[baller7345]

You'll be amazed at losing weight will do for you so .  Unlike you I didn't have a lot of pre-existing injuries, but at 6'2"  and 327lbs as early as April of last year I struggled to get more than 215 out of my driver.  After dropping down to 192-198 in 6 months and a few more months to get used to the new body I have essentially started hitting every club like it was two clubs longer than it used to be and it seems to be still growing.

As for what you can do now, without seeing your swing, I'd start with your tempo.  Find a pace that is comfortable for you with your swing even if you might feel like you aren't swinging full speed.  Sometimes swinging hard doesn't equate to swinging fast and a tempo that is too quick can cause mishits while magnifying other swing faults that may cause distance loss.  On the other hand, if your tempo is too slow you might actually be swinging slow, it varies for each individual.

[gmc1950s]

10 hours ago, Das_onionknight said:

I want to start off this post by saying that I understand that for me losing weight and increasing flexibility are important keys to improving my swing. 

One of the reasons why I joined was to get some real advice instead of hoping that someone may have the same experience as I did and randomly surfing the net for that person. So, I am 6 foot 7 inches tall and weight close to 400 lbs, obviously much better for football than golf. While playing I sacrificed much of my body for football. My ankles, knees, and back have all been damaged beyond repair and my arms have taking a beating as well as an offensive linemen. 

I have a good golf swing but I feel like it could be better. I can drive it consistently 200 yards with a driver and with a lot of research and trial and error pretty straight. I know that with my height and strength I should be able to drive it farther. 

I am working on flexibility because more than my natural strength flexibility is one key to a faster not harder swing. But what can I do to get better with limited turn in ankles, knees, and back? I simply cannot groove and in to out swing properly with my injuries. A major closed stance has helped with the driver. But a closed stance has hurt my fairway woods and iron shots which have been accurate in the past but is not anymore. So I have reverted back to my working swing for my fairways and irons, but lack of the ability to do a full turn is affecting distance. Lack of turning also affects my shot shaping attempts.

I also know that my bigger belly is hurting me, so weight loss will help there. (40 pounds gone far, used to be 440lbs).

Overall my main question is what can I do to become better with my distances with lower body injuries that can't be fixed like my weight and flexibility can be with time. I want to hit further and be able to shot shape. Am I just dreaming or can this become a reality for me?

(I will post swing video as soon as I get to the range with my buddy)

Willing to bet that at 6'7' and 400lbs and 200yds consistently you are swinging your arms and not turning your body. What helps me is to retain my spine angle that I had at set up. I try to think of it as being "measured to the ball". For me any movement of that angle would need an equal but opposite reaction to get back to the measured to the ball address position. That includes up and down movement as well as back and forth.

I don't think your weight or flexibility has as much to do with your lack of distance as you think it does. If you start your backswing with your hands (while maintaining  your spine angle) your hands will bring your arms, your arms will bring your shoulders, and your shoulders will bring your hips, and all you did was start your swing with your hands. Even if your backswing (turn) gets you "only" to 9:00 (and preferably with a full wrist cock, the shaft would be straight up) you still are in a powerful position. Think of yourself in a batters position and the pitcher is trying to get you out with a low and away pitch, but you like low and away pitches. You are not going to swing at that pitch you are going to "turn"  into that pitch and with 400lbs you don't even have to turn that fast  to get the ball to jump like us little guy would have to do. Turn into=start the downswing with the hips (exactly opposite) of how you got there. Now the hips will bring the shoulders, the shoulders will bring the arms, and the arms will bring the hands. Try to finish your swing as best you can. If you are turning correctly but stop just after contact the ball will start straight but leak right at the end. One other thing you might want to do is use the railroad track setup i.e. ball line on one track and body alignment on the parallel track.  I know you want to (work) the ball, but get the turn down first.....well only if I'm right.

About your "bigger belly". I once read where a young lady asked her coach what she should do with her boobs during her swing. His reply was........ take them with you!! I would assume the same thing goes for your belly. Even Hogan said he found no advantage to smallness. He was something like 5'7" and 137lbs and he could bang it 300 with 50's style equipment.

All these things have helped me, but with your football injuries you may have to make adjustments that the rest of us don't. Many well read folks on site. Just pick the things that sound like they might help you. Good luck with your journey 

 

Edited June 26, 2016 by gmc1950s
added detail

[Piz]

Hey guy!  You are large.  Large enough that the club should orbit around you.  Check out a long gone British golfer and instructor named Ernest Jones.  He was a scratch golfer before losing the lower half of his right leg in World War 1.  It was getting back to scratch, on one leg, that gave him his particular insight: that all sorts of people, with missing or damaged parts, could play golf just fine.  It wasn't what their bodies were doing - it was what the golf club was doing.  If the golf club does the right thing (and it is pretty obvious when it does not) the body will FOLLOW!  You do not have to stress your joints to play golf...let Mr. golf club show you the way.  His book is called Swing the Clubhead; but it could just as easily been called Follow the Clubhead.  There are some pretty good you tube videos about Mr. Jones methods.  My favorite features a nice lady explaining that our bodies do whatever a knife and fork require.  Trust me...it makes perfect sense.

[Patch]

3 minutes ago, Piz said:

Hey guy!  You are large.  Large enough that the club should orbit around you.  Check out a long gone British golfer and instructor named Ernest Jones.  He was a scratch golfer before losing the lower half of his right leg in World War 1.  It was getting back to scratch, on one leg, that gave him his particular insight: that all sorts of people, with missing or damaged parts, could play golf just fine.  It wasn't what their bodies were doing - it was what the golf club was doing.  If the golf club does the right thing (and it is pretty obvious when it does not) the body will FOLLOW!  You do not have to stress your joints to play golf...let Mr. golf club show you the way.  His book is called Swing the Clubhead; but it could just as easily been called Follow the Clubhead.  There are some pretty good you tube videos about Mr. Jones methods.  My favorite features a nice lady explaining that our bodies do whatever a knife and fork require.  Trust me...it makes perfect sense.

Earnest Jones's teachings has always served me well. Even after all the physical therapy I had to go through. Manuel de la Torre has another viable instruction book out which is all about swinging the club head too. 

[Rainmaker]

I played with a guy the other week who was probably in his early to mid 60's.  He only took the club back to arms parallel but he put quite a move on it from there.  He'd lay the club way down and just pivot through - and he was driving 240-250 (total distance) like that.    

My first golf teacher, who actually taught me nothing, was in his late 50's to early 60's and could drive it super far.  I thought, at the time, it was easily 300 but now I realize I never did measure it and it seems improbable . .but he hit it freaking far.  AND - he could hit it nearly as far sitting in a chair . .which was his favorite demo to do for me, lol.  Now I know why - but he sucked at explaining it. 

You don't mention what your injuries are and that's important.  If you have some permanent limitations in your mobility and you're serious about being a good golfer . .I'd say it certainly can happen but you'd be *miles* ahead to find a good instructor.  Tell him or her what your injuries and goals are and see what they say.  Maybe talk to a couple before committing. 

I would say, depending on the severity of your injuries - don't try to follow traditional golf instruction (ie - from books or videos, etc) without some guidance from a teacher.  It will just be frustrating and potentially harmful.  

[boogielicious]

17 hours ago, Das_onionknight said:

I want to start off this post by saying that I understand that for me losing weight and increasing flexibility are important keys to improving my swing. 

One of the reasons why I joined was to get some real advice instead of hoping that someone may have the same experience as I did and randomly surfing the net for that person. So, I am 6 foot 7 inches tall and weight close to 400 lbs, obviously much better for football than golf. While playing I sacrificed much of my body for football. My ankles, knees, and back have all been damaged beyond repair and my arms have taking a beating as well as an offensive linemen. 

I have a good golf swing but I feel like it could be better. I can drive it consistently 200 yards with a driver and with a lot of research and trial and error pretty straight. I know that with my height and strength I should be able to drive it farther. 

I am working on flexibility because more than my natural strength flexibility is one key to a faster not harder swing. But what can I do to get better with limited turn in ankles, knees, and back? I simply cannot groove and in to out swing properly with my injuries. A major closed stance has helped with the driver. But a closed stance has hurt my fairway woods and iron shots which have been accurate in the past but is not anymore. So I have reverted back to my working swing for my fairways and irons, but lack of the ability to do a full turn is affecting distance. Lack of turning also affects my shot shaping attempts.

I also know that my bigger belly is hurting me, so weight loss will help there. (40 pounds gone far, used to be 440lbs).

Overall my main question is what can I do to become better with my distances with lower body injuries that can't be fixed like my weight and flexibility can be with time. I want to hit further and be able to shot shape. Am I just dreaming or can this become a reality for me?

(I will post swing video as soon as I get to the range with my buddy)

Welcome to The Sand Trap.  A video will help. There are ways to swing with limited flexibility, while you are working to improve your range of motion. I'm sure you are strong, so half and three quarter swings can go a long way for you. I look forward to the video.

[Das_onionknight]

Just wanted to say sorry I have not responded. I was doing all my communication on my phone and it is hard to respond to so much information that came in on a phone, so I waited until I was on my computer. 

On 26/06/2016 at 0:31 AM, gmc1950s said:

Willing to bet that at 6'7' and 400lbs and 200yds consistently you are swinging your arms and not turning your body. What helps me is to retain my spine angle that I had at set up. I try to think of it as being "measured to the ball". For me any movement of that angle would need an equal but opposite reaction to get back to the measured to the ball address position. That includes up and down movement as well as back and forth.

About your "bigger belly". I once read where a young lady asked her coach what she should do with her boobs during her swing. His reply was........ take them with you!! I would assume the same thing goes for your belly. 

For the first part I believe you are right and I have been trying to learn to turn my body, I find that with super limited flexibility and back stiffness it is a bit of a struggle. I find that as I practice on a range went I turn my body I can't hit a good shot to save my life so I revert back to what kind of works and ultimately don't learn what I wanted to. It is hard to see proper technique not work right off the bat but that is why golf is a lifelong sport.

As for the bringing my belly with me I feel like what you say is key but I am not sure I understand it correctly ... do you have a bit more info on that concept.

On 26/06/2016 at 0:59 AM, Piz said:

Hey guy!  You are large.  Large enough that the club should orbit around you.  

WOW ... Just wow. It is amazing what people will say hidden behind an avatar. I am sure you meant well but I have ignored worse than you and you are no exception.

On 26/06/2016 at 3:36 AM, Rainmaker said:

I would say, depending on the severity of your injuries - don't try to follow traditional golf instruction (ie - from books or videos, etc) without some guidance from a teacher.  It will just be frustrating and potentially harmful.  

My injuries are broke ankles and knees as well as multiple sprains and muscle damage in my back. I have had surgery but mixed with laziness and not exercising or stretching has compounded the problem. One problem is that I am not an top athlete anymore and have to stop believing that I could play like Jordan Spieth. 

I will into the research that has been suggested by everybody and in the meantime I will work on getting that swing video. 

[Piz]

Hidden behind an avatar?  What on earth are you talking about?  I offered Earnest Jones' advice - that the player allow the club head to move around them - in the sincere hope that it would be both useful and encouraging.  A large golfer with a good swing does appear to barely move...while the club head travels in a circular path about them.  I am distressed that my choice of the term "orbit" has caused such a misunderstanding.  

[Das_onionknight]

14 minutes ago, Piz said:

Hidden behind an avatar?  What on earth are you talking about?  I offered Earnest Jones' advice - that the player allow the club head to move around them - in the sincere hope that it would be both useful and encouraging.  A large golfer with a good swing does appear to barely move...while the club head travels in a circular path about them.  I am distressed that my choice of the term "orbit" has caused such a misunderstanding.  

Really though, there is no way that you could not honestly have thought that by say "hey man your large"  could be construed as an insult. And then there was no other word that you could have used than orbit. I have been big my whole life and orbit does not equal an appropriate term. You may have meant different but I took it as such. Your whole post could have worked the same by starting off with "because your large ....". If you didn't mean it as an insult than only you can know but I responded to your comment in a way that I was insulted. Anyways I have moved on thank you for trying to clarify. 

[WUTiger]

On 6/25/2016 at 1:24 PM, Das_onionknight said:

I want to start off this post by saying that I understand that for me losing weight and increasing flexibility are important keys to improving my swing. 

One of the reasons why I joined was to get some real advice instead of hoping that someone may have the same experience as I did and randomly surfing the net for that person. So, I am 6 foot 7 inches tall and weight close to 400 lbs, obviously much better for football than golf. While playing I sacrificed much of my body for football. My ankles, knees, and back have all been damaged beyond repair and my arms have taking a beating as well as an offensive linemen. ...

You are a prime candidate for an analysis by a Titleist Performance Institute  team. A physical therapisist or chiropractor will assess you on 29 body movements, and a golf pro will take this info and help you adjust your swing. Plus, the med-side person will give you a battery of exercises to remedy your physical shortcomings.

If you're interested, the following thread includes comments on my experience:

TPI Analysis: Anybody had one? 

I got one at age 58, a couple of years after open-heart surgery. In my analysis, I was still PGA tour caliber on nine motions, but "Needs physical rehab" on eight more. My body was out of balance in my swing.

Plus, the TPI exercises could be tied into general rehab from your football injuries.

[Valleygolfer]

Maybe @piz meant you are big man in stature. Peter Oosterhaus was a tall golfer with a short swing. I agree losing weight will help but also think improved swing mechanics will get you moving forward. There's a guy at my club that is about 6-1 sports a huge beer gut and hits 280-300 regularly. Your swing will change many times as you improve so just be patient and get yer learn on.

 

 

[Rainmaker]

Fwiw - I think you misunderstood piz. Check this video showing Craig Stadler - about how to swing for bigger guys.  

I also am not on the "white belt approved" list, lol.  I actually asked my golf teacher - can I get better without getting skinnier?  He said - absolutely!  I'm not sure if that was encouragement or an indictment of my current ability - but I have improved and still not skinny. 

[Das_onionknight]

10 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

Maybe @piz meant you are big man in stature. Peter Oosterhaus was a tall golfer with a short swing. I agree losing weight will help but also think improved swing mechanics will get you moving forward. There's a guy at my club that is about 6-1 sports a huge beer gut and hits 280-300 regularly. Your swing will change many times as you improve so just be patient and get yer learn on.

I am sure that's what he meant but you even said that I am a "big man in stature" surely sounds better than implying that I have such a great mass that objects get caught in my gravitational pull.

Maybe he meant what he meant but intonation and poor word choice do not translate well in written word.

Anyways I think that what I am starting to pull from the help is that my focus should be on flexibility because it seems that bigger people can indeed play but what they all have that I don't is the ability to get into position whereas I move like a rock. 

48 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Fwiw - I think you misunderstood piz. Check this video showing Craig Stadler - about how to swing for bigger guys.  

I also am not on the "white belt approved" list, lol.  I actually asked my golf teacher - can I get better without getting skinnier?  He said - absolutely!  I'm not sure if that was encouragement or an indictment of my current ability - but I have improved and still not skinny. 

I have watched this video but my problem is that my limited flexibility and injury I worry that I could not get so upright with my club in my back swing, but that is why I am looking into a more bent at address swing in hopes that my arms can clear the belly. I the video I noticed that he had an out to in swing and I wonder how his shot shaping abilities are. Or am I stuck with a fade shot forever. 

 

*** I would like to stop addressing what Piz may or may not have meant honestly it doesn't really matter and I hope that the great minds on here will continue to offer help so far it has been worthwhile for me. ****

Edited July 9, 2016 by Das_onionknight
Correction

[Buckeyebowman]

Are you "stuck" with a fade? Nicklaus played a fade for most of his career, although he could produce the draw shape when he needed to. But he didn't like to do it! Hogan also played a fade. Found it more controllable than a draw or hook. Many pros played the fade as their predominant shot shape. If it you can hit it solidly, and move it a decent distance, there's no place on earth (except maybe Augusta), where you can't play a fade.