Rangefinders on the PGA Tour?

[ScouseJohnny]

Do we really want to watch tour players and their caddies spending ages squinting through quasi-military equipment on the approach shot to the 18th green at St Andrews, in order to win the Open Championship? I think golf would lose a lot of its charm that way.

Seve didn't need a rangefinder to hit it pin high, even when he was digging it out from a car park, between the parked Cortinas.

 

Edited July 29, 2016 by ScouseJohnny

[Divot Master]

I voted yes, but with the caveat that only the caddie would be permitted to use the rangefinder.

[Piz]

The use of range finders has, if anything, slowed the game at the (weekend) amateur level.  If professionals start using them in competition; it will get worse.  I'm okay with a caddie telling a player what the yardage is; but it adds an extra step for the player who has to stop the cart, break out the range finder, walk over to the ball, take a reading, announce the finding, return to the cart, put the instrument back in its case, select a club, return to the ball, wonder out loud if the wind has changed, take a few practice swings, skull one 50 yards, get back in the cart, pull ahead 150 feet...and repeat the process.

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Fourputt said:

As I said, you are naive to think that they would use the the rangefinder in place of something else.  They will use every bit of equipment available to them and just add the rangefinder to the list.  

You don't know that.

I've seen college tournaments where it definitely speeds the pace of play. I've seen PGA Tour pros using them quickly and efficiently in events.

I'm not guaranteeing it, but you no more so know than @Pretzel or anyone else knows.

I can say that in the biggest events in which I've caddied, such as PGA National Player Championships and the like, we'd just use the laser for yardages and the map for locations and relative distances. If it's 176 to the flag and a tier on the green is marked as 6 on, and the pin is back 18, we'd be able to do that math quickly without having to pace off landmarks. Lasers are more accurate than my paces… and I practice (dating back to when I was a kid) my one-yard paces.

[newtogolf]

30 minutes ago, Piz said:

The use of range finders has, if anything, slowed the game at the (weekend) amateur level.  If professionals start using them in competition; it will get worse.  I'm okay with a caddie telling a player what the yardage is; but it adds an extra step for the player who has to stop the cart, break out the range finder, walk over to the ball, take a reading, announce the finding, return to the cart, put the instrument back in its case, select a club, return to the ball, wonder out loud if the wind has changed, take a few practice swings, skull one 50 yards, get back in the cart, pull ahead 150 feet...and repeat the process.

Better they stop the cart, look for a yardage marker pace off the distance and then do all the other things you mention?  

I pull the cart up to the ball, I can get the distance from my rangefinder and put it back in the case in less than 15 - 20 seconds total, much faster than using yardage markers.   

[jsgolfer]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

A Gary McCord fan? I think it's clear we won't agree on much.

I'm with you, McCord, Meh!

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Lasers are more accurate than my paces… and I practice (dating back to when I was a kid) my one-yard paces.

I'm in for the use during tournaments.  

In my Surveying class, when I was in college, one of the things we did was try to determine our paces needed to go 50 feet. My pace averaged about 2.8 feet, so you can get close to the actual yardage, but as IACAS noted the laser is much more accurate and therefore hopefully would speed up play.  

[Fourputt]

42 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Better they stop the cart, look for a yardage marker pace off the distance and then do all the other things you mention?  

I pull the cart up to the ball, I can get the distance from my rangefinder and put it back in the case in less than 15 - 20 seconds total, much faster than using yardage markers.   

And I can glance at my GPS and get accurate front middle and back distance, then add or subtract a few yards to get my pin distance, and do it all in about 5 seconds, so maybe we should only allow GPS rangefinders?  Your point has marginal validity in that it only applies to your game, as mine only applies to mine.  I know guys who take longer than I do with a GPS and I know those who take less than you do with a laser.  

I don't really think that a significant gain or loss of pace would be realized by such a change.  These guys are still going to agonize over every yard, and most of the time will still be lost in weighing all of the other factors - getting the raw distance is the easy part of the job, even without a rangefinder.  

[newtogolf]

5 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

And I can glance at my GPS and get accurate front middle and back distance, then add or subtract a few yards to get my pin distance, and do it all in about 5 seconds, so maybe we should only allow GPS rangefinders?  Your point has marginal validity in that it only applies to your game, as mine only applies to mine.  I know guys who take longer than I do with a GPS and I know those who take less than you do with a laser.  

I don't really think that a significant gain or loss of pace would be realized by such a change.  These guys are still going to agonize over every yard, and most of the time will still be lost in weighing all of the other factors - getting the raw distance is the easy part of the job, even without a rangefinder.  

I was responding to someone who suggested use of a rangefinder adds a lot of time to pace of play.  

As for GPS, I use a GPS too but GPS doesn't give you exact distance so you still need to figure out where the pin is in relation to the front, middle and back distances the GPS reports.  

[Fourputt]

38 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I was responding to someone who suggested use of a rangefinder adds a lot of time to pace of play.  

As for GPS, I use a GPS too but GPS doesn't give you exact distance so you still need to figure out where the pin is in relation to the front, middle and back distances the GPS reports.  

If I have a pin sheet or coded flags, I can get within 2 yards of a laser on just about any hole you want to point me at.  My Garmin has a green view that allows me to drag the pin to the approximate location on the green, and that replaces the distance to the center on the display.  I don't use it much because it's not usually necessary.  I can usually estimate within 2 yards of a laser reading, and that's closer than I really need it.  

The pros get accurate pin sheets each day, so they could place the pins exactly using a GPS like mine.

[Golfingdad]

10 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

If I have a pin sheet or coded flags, I can get within 2 yards of a laser on just about any hole you want to point me at.  My Garmin has a green view that allows me to drag the pin to the approximate location on the green, and that replaces the distance to the center on the display.  I don't use it much because it's not usually necessary.  I can usually estimate within 2 yards of a laser reading, and that's closer than I really need it.  

The pros get accurate pin sheets each day, so they could place the pins exactly using a GPS like mine.

This argument is a waste of time - you guys don't disagree with each other.  @newtogolf's original objection was because somebody ridiculously suggested that lasers slow play down for us amateurs.  As far as we know, it's likely that same guy also thinks GPS slows down play for us amatuers - which is, of course ,equally ridiculous. :)

[BallStriker]

To me, it boils down to whether getting a correct yardage is an essential part of the game.....and arguably a slippery slop

What about a device that measures wind......

What about a device or special glasses that shows the slope of a putt or shows the "correct" line from the ball to the hole

As a fan of the game and tournament golf, I could care less if they play 5 1/2 hour rounds......so speed of play doesn't factor into the equation for me

[boogielicious]

10 hours ago, ScouseJohnny said:

Do we really want to watch tour players and their caddies spending ages squinting through quasi-military equipment on the approach shot to the 18th green at St Andrews, in order to win the Open Championship? I think golf would lose a lot of its charm that way.

Seve didn't need a rangefinder to hit it pin high, even when he was digging it out from a car park, between the parked Cortinas.

 

Seve's caddie new exactly how far it was from the car park to the front edge of the green because he paced it off in the practice round knowing that Seve might end up there. 

[ScouseJohnny]

3 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Seve's caddie new exactly how far it was from the car park to the front edge of the green because he paced it off in the practice round knowing that Seve might end up there. 

You're probably right about that!

I was amused, so I just dug out the clip on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zYjhkQZ66U

The 16th at Royal Lytham & St. Annes - but Ford Cortinas were heavily involved. It was 1979 after all.

 

[boogielicious]

3 minutes ago, ScouseJohnny said:

You're probably right about that!

I was amused, so I just dug out the clip on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zYjhkQZ66U

The 16th at Royal Lytham & St. Annes - but Ford Cortinas were heavily involved. It was 1979 after all.

 

It is these instances where rangefinders would speed up play the most. The caddies know distances on the course is areas they expect shots to be. But shots like Seve had in the video are off the grid so to speak. I've seen other tournaments where the caddie walked all the way to the green and back to measure a distance that was not anticipated. That takes a lot of time.

[David L Yskes]

i voted  " no "     keep the game the way it is.....      i've watched some of college tournaments and such that allow range finders and its like really???    i mean i am far from a good golfer yet i can eye a distance pretty, when i am within 200 yards..   

if you want to speed up the game, why not allow the players to use golf carts??????????????  

 

 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, David L Yskes said:

i voted  " no "     keep the game the way it is.....      i've watched some of college tournaments and such that allow range finders and its like really???    i mean i am far from a good golfer yet i can eye a distance pretty, when i am within 200 yards..   

I'm sorry, but your eye is not as accurate as a laser rangefinder.

Or likely even as accurate as a detailed yardage book and pacing it off.

[mchepp]

I voted yes. I think guys might still keep the book to give them details on things they want to remember about the course, but for simple yardage purposes it makes to let them use it. 

[Piz]

No one is saying that distance measuring devices are a sign of spiritual and moral decay.  Some of us enjoy guessing; it is the way we were introduced to the game.  It doesn't bother me what anyone does as long as they do it in a timely fashion.  The pace of play, on any given occasion, is not determined by the majority.  It is dependent on the pace established by the slowest group.  Slow players are already poor at managing their time.  Giving them something else to do will not help.  Hopefully I'm wrong.