Senden waits 22 sec for putt to drop

[vasaribm]

 

When does the 10 sec clock start for rule 16-2?

 

 

[iacas]

I'd have started it when the fellow competitor walked past the hole. Senden took his time. You can't delay.

[chspeed]

"the player is allowed enough time to reach the hole without unreasonable delay and an additional ten seconds to determine whether the ball is at rest."

Watching the video, I wouldn't call his delay unreasonable. He was making his way to the hole to clean it up.

[Abu3baid]

I didn't start or stop the timer, but it didn't look to me that he delayed his approach to the ball.. I mean we can't expect him to jog there.

[billchao]

He delayed IMO. He took a roundabout route to his ball.

His 10 seconds should have started after he finished his knee buckling dance, when he moves left instead of straight towards the ball, which is about the 7 second mark of the video.

[Hardspoon]

I wouldn't call his delay "unreasonable"...probably approaching the border of what's OK, but I think he was fine.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, billchao said:

He delayed IMO. He took a roundabout route to his ball.

I agree.

[Rulesman]

He walked round his FC's line of putt.

[bkuehn1952]

Wouldn't he need to take care not to create a scenario where it could be claimed he moved the ball?  Also, as @Rulesman said he appears to be walking around someone's line (and possibly through line).

If I were asked to make the call I would say no penalty although I can understand why some think his delay was unreasonable.

 

[chspeed]

33 minutes ago, billchao said:

He delayed IMO. He took a roundabout route to his ball.

I agree that he delayed, but breach of the rule specifically calls for "unreasonable" delay. Was it long enough to be unreasonable? IMO, no.

[drmevo]

Maybe it's near the end of the 10 seconds at worst, but I mean c'mon...it's not like he's standing there staring at it with his hands on his hips. He's allowed to check whether it's at rest or might still drop, and that might require looking from a couple of different angles.  Plus he had to get around the other line of putt, as has been mentioned.

Edited July 29, 2016 by drmevo

[newtogolf]

He definitely delayed, he took a roundabout way to his ball, wasted more time bending over and looking at it right before it dropped.  The sniff test is what would he have done if it was an inch from the cup, after agonizing that it didn't go in, he'd have walked straight up and tapped it in.  

I agree with @chspeed that I wouldn't consider it an unreasonable delay since he's allotted 10 seconds and he probably only wasted another 5 seconds giving it time to drop.  It's all a matter of when the clock started, if they reviewed it, I could see it going either way.  

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

He walked round his FC's line of putt.

No he didn't. Look at the line his FC walks… Senden could have walked the same line. He purposefully took the longest route to the ball, walking more than 360° around the hole to get to the ball.

I don't think I'd have added the stroke, but I do think he delayed, and I'd have pointed out to him that he should not do that sort of thing in the future as it was close, IMO.

[Hardspoon]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't think I'd have added the stroke, but I do think he delayed, and I'd have pointed out to him that he should not do that sort of thing in the future as it was close, IMO.

^ This.

I think this is one of those penalties that would almost never be assessed...it happens so rarely, and the way the rule is written ("unreasonable") gives enough leeway.  Again, I think he was on the borderline.

Anyone know of a case on the PGA tour where it was?

32 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

He definitely delayed, he took a roundabout way to his ball, wasted more time bending over and looking at it right before it dropped. 

Once he gets to his ball, he's allowed to stand with his hands in his pockets and stare at it for 10 seconds.  The first part is the real issue, and where he might have had a problem.

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

Once he gets to his ball, he's allowed to stand with his hands in his pockets and stare at it for 10 seconds.  The first part is the real issue, and where he might have had a problem.

He can also stand where he hit his putt from and stare in disbelief for ten seconds, then walk up and if it falls when he's walking, it's still good.

Basically it's 10 seconds + a reasonable amount of time to walk up to the ball. The ten seconds can be split up.

[rob0225]

Not at all, no delay.

[Fourputt]

He definitely took a more circuitous route to the hole than the rule contemplates.  He was skirting around the letter of the rule, but I agree that the ball just made it in under the wire.

[Hardspoon]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

He can also stand where he hit his putt from and stare in disbelief for ten seconds, then walk up and if it falls when he's walking, it's still good.

Basically it's 10 seconds + a reasonable amount of time to walk up to the ball. The ten seconds can be split up.

Huh - didn't realize that, but looking at the Rule, that's the way it is written.  That's interesting.