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Golf club thief picked the wrong mark - gets held at gunpoint


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57 minutes ago, iacas said:

You steal from me.

What's the limit to what I get to do to you, or your family, or whatever? How many laws do I get to break because you broke a law before me?

Two wrongs do not make a right.

This isn't a home invader suing a homeowner because they tripped on your living room carpet and broke their arm.

The limit is I get to make sure you get arrested and put in jail for your crime.  

Joe Paradiso

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Just now, newtogolf said:

The limit is I get to make sure you get arrested and put in jail for your crime.  

I agree.

But I wasn't responding to you. The person I quoted seems to feel differently. He seems to feel I get to break laws myself, free.

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1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

The limit is I get to make sure you get arrested and put in jail for your crime.  

So...if the thief started to run away, and he shot him in the back...that's fine?

- John

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3 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

So...if the thief started to run away, and he shot him in the back...that's fine?

I reread my post, didn't see anywhere in it that I typed it was okay to shoot him.  

Acree restrained him until police arrived, he was reckless pulling the gun, but I would have been fine with him using a bat to the knees or pepper spray to the eyes if the thief refused to wait for the police willingly.  

Joe Paradiso

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4 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I reread my post, didn't see anywhere in it that I typed it was okay to shoot him.  

Acree restrained him until police arrived, he was reckless pulling the gun, but I would have been fine with him using a bat to the knees or pepper spray to the eyes if the thief refused to wait for the police willingly.  

OK - perhaps I misunderstood.  You said "The limit is I get to make sure you get arrested and put in jail for your crime."  I took that to mean "Whatever it takes to make sure you get arrested."

 

 

- John

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10 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

OK - perhaps I misunderstood.  You said "The limit is I get to make sure you get arrested and put in jail for your crime."  I took that to mean "Whatever it takes to make sure you get arrested."

 

:beer: It's all good.  I am pro gun and anti-crime but I don't condone vigilante justice for golf clubs.  

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Joe Paradiso

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27 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I don't condone vigilante justice for golf clubs.  

Uhhh…

44 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

… I would have been fine with him using a bat to the knees or pepper spray to the eyes if the thief refused to wait for the police willingly.  

You don't get to break laws just because someone else did.

IMO, a "bat to the knees" is vigilante justice. It's taking things too far.

It's just "stuff." Stuff likely covered by your insurance.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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I've always been a fan of a good 5 knuckle beat down on things like this.....I am WAY pro-gun but a gun should only be pulled if your going to use it. And to shoot someone for stealing is a little much. If you give him a very good beating I'm sure he would learn his lesson.

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34 minutes ago, iacas said:

Uhhh…

You don't get to break laws just because someone else did.

IMO, a "bat to the knees" is vigilante justice. It's taking things too far.

It's just "stuff." Stuff likely covered by your insurance.

Agree, if a bat to the knees is not vigilante justice I don't know what is.

my big issue is the there is no adjustment to the place and time this is all taking place..  It's not even a robbery in progress..  What if you got the wrong guy and he already got the bat to the knee treatment??

the court system has convicted innocent people before, there's no way your going to bat 100% in identifying the thief.

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

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15 hours ago, jkelley9 said:

- The kid is opening a lawsuit against the guy? Lol. I would love to write the name down of any lawyer that accepts that case. I feel like the kid is out of bounds legally on that one. I hope it costs him money in the end. Even though what the retired marshall did was plain wrong, I don't feel like he should be sued for it. The kid stole a lot of money from him.

  As I read that, the kid is filing a criminal complaint against Acree, not a lawsuit.  The complaint alleges that Acree violated a number of laws.  Of course that complain may be the opening step in a course of action that will lead to a lawsuit, but he's not asking Acree for money at this time,  based on what I read.  And let's face it, if MacDonalds can be held liable because some clumsy oaf spills coffee on himself, its certainly possible that Mr. Acree will also be held liable for something.

Dave

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17 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

And let's face it, if MacDonalds can be held liable because some clumsy oaf spills coffee on himself, its certainly possible that Mr. Acree will also be held liable for something.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

OT, but worth reading before you hold that case up as an example of a frivolous lawsuit.

- John

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26 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants

OT, but worth reading before you hold that case up as an example of a frivolous lawsuit.

What he will very likely be guilty of is threatening someone with lethal force when he didn't have a legal right to do so.  I believe this is assault and since he kicked him likely battery also.  This is a serious felony and you can lose your freedom if found guilty.  Probably a good opening to a civil suite of "illegal detention" or whatever it is called in that state.

Butch

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10 hours ago, iacas said:

Uhhh…

You don't get to break laws just because someone else did.

IMO, a "bat to the knees" is vigilante justice. It's taking things too far.

It's just "stuff." Stuff likely covered by your insurance.

I see it as a fine line.  He's an older man, who likely wouldn't be able to restrain him bare hands one on one.  

If he hits him in the knee or pepper sprays him for the sake of ensuring he doesn't leave the scene I don't see that as vigilante justice.  In my mind, vigilante justice is he beats him to a pulp with the bat for the sake of hurting him only.  

If he was a younger guy who knew BJJ and used a ankle lock or leg lock to damage his leg that way, would that still be vigilante justice?  

Seems what some of you are saying is if someone robs you, you just let them do it and leave and hope the police decide to follow up.  

Joe Paradiso

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9 hours ago, Abu3baid said:

there's no way your going to bat 100% in identifying the thief.

Ha ha, very punny...

:banana:

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

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The incident in the OP doesn't sway my opinion on gun control one way or the other. Isolated incident in which some angry, old white dude should lose his right to carry indefinitely, but nothing that makes me believe that every gun carrier needs to be affected or restricted due to this incident.

The John Wayne comments from some of y'all however, do make me think that gun laws need to be seriously revisited. The fact that some of you...ahem...more extreme individuals are actually permitted to carry is frightening indeed. And before there is an uproar, let me be clear that I have no issue with most of you who carry as your comments seemed to be well balanced and rational. Some others...not so much. It's seems pretty obvious to me that your right to bear arms should be dependant upon on your ability to not lose your shit when you're pissed off.

 

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Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

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18 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I see it as a fine line.  He's an older man, who likely wouldn't be able to restrain him bare hands one on one.  

If he hits him in the knee or pepper sprays him for the sake of ensuring he doesn't leave the scene I don't see that as vigilante justice.  In my mind, vigilante justice is he beats him to a pulp with the bat for the sake of hurting him only.  

If he was a younger guy who knew BJJ and used a ankle lock or leg lock to damage his leg that way, would that still be vigilante justice?  

Seems what some of you are saying is if someone robs you, you just let them do it and leave and hope the police decide to follow up.  

I think the point is, if the victim of a non-violent theft decides to use violence against the thief well after the crime was committed, he opens himself up to all kinds of trouble. Obviously it's different if someone gets jumped or car-jacked and the criminal is the first one to threaten or use violence.

I'm not sure how pepper spray is classified in terms of being a weapon or not but I imagine using it could legally be considered assault in a situation like this.  

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19 minutes ago, drmevo said:

I think the point is, if the victim of a non-violent theft decides to use violence against the thief well after the crime was committed, he opens himself up to all kinds of trouble. Obviously it's different if someone gets jumped or car-jacked and the criminal is the first one to threaten or use violence.

I'm not sure how pepper spray is classified in terms of being a weapon or not but I imagine using it could legally be considered assault in a situation like this.  

I agree there may be repercussions from using force to restrain a criminal but I believe as long as the force was used to only restrain the individual and no additional bodily harm was done the courts would be lenient in their ruling and most likely no charges would result in most jurisdictions.  

The alternative is the courts send a message to all victims of crimes that they are helpless and must solely depend on the police to capture criminals even when they are face to face with them.    

Joe Paradiso

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18 hours ago, jkelley9 said:

The kid is opening a lawsuit against the guy? Lol. I would love to write the name down of any lawyer that accepts that case. I feel like the kid is out of bounds legally on that one. I hope it costs him money in the end. Even though what the retired marshall did was plain wrong, I don't feel like he should be sued for it. The kid stole a lot of money from him.

That hasn't happened yet but his legal complaint could be the first step. And frivolous or not this is a slam dunk for a sleazy lawyer. Look at it this way chances are a guy stealing golf clubs doesn't have much to lose. The guy with the Titleist bling clubs likely does, retired fire marshal etc. It will cost the marshal money to defend himself unless he has a bunch of lawyer buddies willing to work pro bono. Can't get blood from a rock so taking it all the way to a magistrate in hopes of winning a case like that and trying to recover damages is risky. That's why frivolous suits settle. Not because someone is right or wrong because they are expense to defend.

Dave :-)

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Note: This thread is 2760 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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