Weight toward toes or heels?

[DaveP043]

I've recently survived a bit of a slump, right on the heels of some of the best golf of my life.  I believe a part of it was a little golf burn-out, I simply wasn't concentrating or paying the right amount of attention.  But part of it was physical.  I was hitting a lot more really poor shots, and feeling more off-balance through and after the swing.  The golf swing felt like hard work, when through my good stretch each swing felt comfortable and smooth.  What's been helping the last couple of weeks is feeling a bit more weight on my heels, something I seem to need to re-learn at least once a year.

I think for many of us, growing up playing football or baseball or basketball or whatever sports, we're told to keep our weight forward, on the balls of our feet.  In golf, at least for me, that doesn't work so well.  I feel like I need to have my weight centered on my feet, which means I need to feel a little bit of weight on my heels.  But I realize that "feel ain't real", so I'm wondering what the real swing experts think.  I know the weight should move toward the target during the forward swing, and I think I do that reasonably well.  But where should the weight be, or move, in the heel-toe direction?

[Kalnoky]

 

9 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

feeling more off-balance through and after the swing.  The golf swing felt like hard work, when through my good stretch each swing felt comfortable and smooth. 

I'm looking forward to reading what others have to say about Dave's question. I have a feeling this is going to help me a lot.

FWIW, I was also a decent athlete growing up, played every sport at a fairly proficient level. Golf is the first game I ever played that was not instinctual.  

[iacas]

Some basic truths:

• If you're off balance, you will not be able to expend the energy toward hitting the ball that you otherwise should.
• If you're off balance, your body will often attempt to regain balance, particularly during the more dynamic portions of the swing.
• Balance after impact is at the same time irrelevant - the ball is gone - but also indicative of what came before.

Beyond that, the center of your feet is all you want. The other sports, yes, it tends to be forward because you have to move. In golf, your feet still move, but they do so in place.

Here are some screenshots from the Grant Waite video. I've cut the swing off so the focus is on the pressure… but I've noted the positions in the swing when it occurs.

A1 (Setup): Weight forward (left foot), and equally toe/heel on the left, but favoring the toes on the right foot.

A4: Left heel has lost some pressure because the left knee bends a bit more (some people's left heel comes off the ground, as you know). Right heel has gained a little pressure relative to the whole foot.

A5: Weight is swooping out toward the left toes as the hips slide toward first base and the arms swing in the same direction (out and down).

A6.5-ish: Weight just heel-side of center, right foot banked on the toes mostly, and left foot canted toward the outside of the foot.

A7.5-ish: Weight mostly in the heel of the left foot, and obviously just barely on the right toes and the instep of the right foot.

Now this pattern is fairly typical. Some players will have more abrupt traces, and in a lot of players the weight will shift in the right heel more during the backswing (the trace above would have a steeper angle toward the bottom right corner), but the weight generally stays toward the center of the foot with only small shifts toward the toes and heels (except when your left heel lifts in the backswing or your right does in the downswing).

If players are comfortable kind of "staying" on their heels (and actually doing so, not just feeling like they are), then it's most often because they flip a little and so this helps them at least pick the ball a bit instead of hitting it fat.

---

Most players tend to be a little too far toward their heels, and I do a lot with people to try to get them to feel as though it's over the balls of their feet, but I don't really actually want it there - it's just a feel to get the weight centered.

[Patch]

All I ever want from my feet, during my golf swing is a platform of balance. I never really look where my the weight is. Just a comfortable, solid support to help the rest of my legs allow me to swing the club head. 

Sure other sports might require a different balance point towards the balls of our feet, because the feet are are moving most of the time to make a play in those other sports. Golf for me, from the stand point of my feet, is a game that is played more from a stationary stance. 

As for burn out, I get tired of golf 3-4 times a year. Sometimes I just play through it, while other times I take some time off. 

[rehmwa]

I try to keep it centered.  For me, it means I need a "feel" that I'm a bit toward the balls of my feet.  not the heels.  video and performance seems to bear this out for me.  I don't know why, maybe it's part of the idea of 'covering' the ball or something.  meh

YMMV - either way, it would be cool to confirm it by getting to step on one of those pressure pads.

[DaveP043]

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

Most players tend to be a little too far toward their heels, and I do a lot with people to try to get them to feel as though it's over the balls of their feet, but I don't really actually want it there - it's just a feel to get the weight centered.

 

Obviously you've studied this more than I have, but this is a bit of a surprise to me.  I see a lot of players kind of losing their balance forward after impact, I would have thought that more of them were a bit toe-heavy.  Perhaps that off-balance forward at the end is a symptom of being too far on the heels earlier in the swing, and moving the weight not just towards the target but towards the ball during the swing..

[rehmwa]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Obviously you've studied this more than I have, but this is a bit of a surprise to me.  I see a lot of players kind of losing their balance forward after impact, I would have thought that more of them were a bit toe-heavy.  Perhaps that off-balance forward at the end is a symptom of being too far on the heels earlier in the swing, and moving the weight not just towards the target but towards the ball during the swing..

That's why having stats and large sample size is better than anecdotes, and good instructors rely on more than just their own stories and observations and also talk and share with each other too.

I tend to see people falling back on their heels......Or, maybe we just project our own experience.....or we experience the efffects of our bloody marys in different ways with our swings.

Only one real solution - swing harder

[iacas]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Obviously you've studied this more than I have, but this is a bit of a surprise to me.  I see a lot of players kind of losing their balance forward after impact, I would have thought that more of them were a bit toe-heavy.

Because they're on their heels, so in their dynamic motion, they move toward the center, which is toward the toes. Once something starts moving in one direction during the golf swing, it rarely stops right when it gets to the "right" spot - that's the sucky thing about momentum - so it carries right on and leaves them on their toes at the finish.

In other words, throughout the swing, their weight moves from their heels (setup) toward their toes (follow-through). Where they finish is often not where they started.

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

Perhaps that off-balance forward at the end is a symptom of being too far on the heels earlier in the swing, and moving the weight not just towards the target but towards the ball during the swing..

Yup.

I should really read ahead sometimes instead of responding piece by piece.

---

I will add that a weight imbalance isn't super prevalent. I don't even know if I'd say I mention it to 50% of my lessons.

Many golfers are okay.

[RayG]

I've just come across this myself. Centering my weight on the downswing I was going toe heavy and falling a bit off balance. So I "center" my weight" with 60% going toward heels. Now on the downswing, I'm in much better balance and getting a much better impact and staying on balance.

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, RayG said:

I've just come across this myself. Centering my weight on the downswing I was going toe heavy and falling a bit off balance. So I "center" my weight" with 60% going toward heels. Now on the downswing, I'm in much better balance and getting a much better impact and staying on balance.

It sounds like your experience is similar to mine.  My question here, how do you determine 60% on your heels?  Is this a feel, or real?  One reason I posted the question was that although I've found a feel that works for me, I wondered what the reality was for a good swing.  I doubt that I'll ever get a chance to use a pressure plate system, but its interesting to know what reality is.

[RayG]

duh...I feel it it my feet.... 

Seriously, Since it's only been a few weeks of doing it, I'm much more conscious of doing it so I notice it. I say 60% but that is a guess. It's subtle, but I can feel it. Maybe it's just a bit more butt squat. If and when I can get my driver swing documented correctly (see My "my swing" update for that story) it might show up a bit more than my previous swing video when I was centered or toe heavy-ish.

[nevets88]

I wonder if having large vs small sized feet makes a difference. I'm guessing if you have a more stable base, ie larger feet, it's easier to stay balanced?

[Kalnoky]

My current instructor talks about feeling a solid connection/"suction" to the ground. Or something like that - I can't remember the exact analogy he used. The only way I can do this is by bending more at the hips and more at the knees, which give me a very balanced and solid feeling, but it is very uncomfortable to swing out of, and FWIW, is the exact opposite of what my first instructor preached, which was to be more upright.. 

Anyway to make a long story short balance is probably the biggest problem with my ball striking. Besides the overthinking aspect, of course.

[Buckeyebowman]

6 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I wonder if having large vs small sized feet makes a difference. I'm guessing if you have a more stable base, ie larger feet, it's easier to stay balanced?

I suppose that's a point, but you still have to stay on them. I've noticed that when I let my weight drift into my toes on the downswing, it's only a matter of time before the dreaded shank rears it's ugly head! I think this is because I let my weight settle too much into my heels at address. Oddly enough, this problem would never manifest itself in a full shot, although the grass marks on the clubface would show strikes quite close to the hosel. I'd only hit an actual shank on a partial wedge to the green.

The cause? Who really knows? It could be that on the little wedge shots I forgot to move my body toward the target and just let my body weight rock from heels to toes. It could also be that I was making a backswing that was nothing more than flipping the club behind me and throwing the hosel at the ball.

It could be any combination of reasons, but I've found some relief in standing a little taller to the ball, and starting my hands back a little more on the target line.

 

[natureboy]

7 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I wonder if having large vs small sized feet makes a difference. I'm guessing if you have a more stable base, ie larger feet, it's easier to stay balanced?

When I volunteered at the local Symetra event, I noticed that more of the players had slightly longer feet than I would expect on average. Not a universal rule for good players, but a slight shift above the expected mean for the tournament population.

[mvmac]

15 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I feel like I need to have my weight centered on my feet, which means I need to feel a little bit of weight on my heels.  But I realize that "feel ain't real", so I'm wondering what the real swing experts think.  I know the weight should move toward the target during the forward swing, and I think I do that reasonably well.  But where should the weight be, or move, in the heel-toe direction?

I can have the same tendency of getting it more on my toes. For me it's more of a torso issue than a weight distribution problem. If my torso is bent over too much I'll get off balance. This might be because of my proportions, I have a long torso and short arms/legs. I have some checkpoints feels I go through to try to get my self as good as I can. With the example below it feels like I'm not bending over at all. When I check on video I draw a straight line down to the ground from my armpit and want to see my armpit, my knee cap and the middle of my foot come close to lining up.

Erik answered the other bit, centered between the toes and heel is preferred. If not the golfer will make a compensation to balance themselves during the swing. 

[boogielicious]

15 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I wonder if having large vs small sized feet makes a difference. I'm guessing if you have a more stable base, ie larger feet, it's easier to stay balanced?

I have size 12 feet and I'm only 5'10". I get off balance at times and it is always because of a bad swing and not my big feet! 

[Ob-4-Life]

On 10/31/2016 at 1:48 PM, DaveP043 said:

It sounds like your experience is similar to mine.  My question here, how do you determine 60% on your heels?  Is this a feel, or real?  One reason I posted the question was that although I've found a feel that works for me, I wondered what the reality was for a good swing.  I doubt that I'll ever get a chance to use a pressure plate system, but its interesting to know what reality is.

For me , I am absolutely in a better place for impact when i am not on my toes. And for me the most important place this takes place is in the backswing. I have to feel like_ while still getting a nice powerful hip and shoulder turn i do not lean forward. to me i have to make a thought to keep my left shoulder back, or keep my distance from the ball. Then i find the rest of the swing falls in smoothly, and lets you get a a little of the elusive forward shaft lean.  I could not stop to casting to save my life. Read books ,took a lesson, watched 100 videos. While everything sounded great, not one idea ever mentioned ever even come close to what it took for me. for me when off balance , like stated earlier , your body wants to catch balance more then stay dynamic. when your body wants you to stand up because you were leaning forward, and it doesnt want  to see you fall! lol.. for me this  also made my mind know i had to cast . I cast so much less now than before and hit so much more consistent on distance and way less shanks because of less casting and a more stable club face..