There are more bad Club Pros than good

[paininthenuts]

I am going to be a bit controversial here and say that club pros are not gods and don't know everything. I constantly here that lessons are the B all and end of everything, but have also noticed that club pros invariably disagree with each other, meaning that only one of them can be right. I have had a fair few lesson from two different pros, and to be honest you would think they were trying to teach me different games. In fact the person who has given me the best tips is a 9 handicapper, and I am prepared to listen to anyone, including people with a handicap of 28. 

This isn't to say that I think all golf pros talk rubbish, I just think people should realise that there are probably more bad ones than good ones, and there is also a lot to be said for "if it works for you, do it regardless"

[Ernest Jones]

If you think that is being controversial on this site, you really should spend a bit more time reading. 

[RandallT]

23 minutes ago, paininthenuts said:

 and there is also a lot to be said for "if it works for you, do it regardless"

This last bit you threw in, however, might be generate disagreement. I remember this blog entry:

 

[Patch]

It goes both ways, as there are bad students too. Saddle a decent club pro with a poor student, then where is the problem? 

Communication and understanding are the main two ingredients that makes, or breaks any instruction. The student, and the instructor need to know how to do both.  

[caniac6]

We have two pros that teach at my course. One is very simple and old school. The other tries to reinvent the wheel. The simple one will sometimes use a launch monitor and his ipad, but he usually stresses very simple fixes, and improvements are fairly quick. The other one usually sells series of lessons, always finds more faults for "next time". The more technical one seems to be the busiest, but a lot of people say that his students take a lot of lessons, but don't get better. The simple approach works better for me, but some folks are drawn to the more technical approach. These two are both conidered good teachers, and  eventhough their methods are different, I would take their advice over most amatuers.

[CarlSpackler]

I'm not sure you can say that there are more bad ones than good ones. How many do you know or have worked with? Are you simply rating them by their teaching skills? 

[chilepepper]

Just like any other profession there are bad, mediocre, good and great individuals.  In an teaching environment the instructor is also dealing with student limitations,  specific to golf those would be ability and willingness to practice.

[paininthenuts]

2 hours ago, CarlSpackler said:

I'm not sure you can say that there are more bad ones than good ones. How many do you know or have worked with? Are you simply rating them by their teaching skills? 

Mainly by what they look like

[Groucho Valentine]

Im sure they're are plenty of good ones.  But I dont think you're that far off base. A lot of the club pros I've met dont really know what the hell they're talking about in terms of teaching or golf. They're mostly failed professional players or just dudes doing a job. Theres nothing wrong with that in itself, but i agree we should caution ourselves against putting club pros on too high of a pedestal. Ive found that the best teachers aren't really attached to clubs. 

[Kalnoky]

Golf Pros are just teachers, like you have in school. They are facilitators. If you only do the bare minimum, you will get average or below average results. If you put in the effort and do the homework, you will see results - eventually. That being said, it helps to like the guy a little bit.. If he has a foul smelling deodorant or a nervous tic that is distracting, then it's best to look elsewhere. Lessons are not cheap.

 

 

[Hategolf]

I have taken lessons from 5 pros since I started playing the game. 2 of the pros were great. The others I found them not to be a good fit for me. 

I would not say that the pros that I did not connect with were bad though.  I am 100% Convinced that there are a few things that need to be taken in to account when working with an instructor, such as but not limited to:

*Your skill level = Are you a beginner? if so, a less experience instructor who focus on basic traditional fundamentals could work very well.  If you are advance or intermediate, a more technical instructor who is up to date with the latest might be a better fit. 

*Your ability to understand the message = It took me 6 months to understand what one of my instructors was describing as it relates to the mechanics...but once I did...BINGO...I made a lot of progress really fast. Had I found someone who perhaps communicated in a different way, I would probably be a better player already. 

*The instructor ability to adjust to how you think = I told one of my instructors ...Hey I tried to do wht you are asking me to do and it doesnt work, so let's move on to plan B!...He said There is no plan B..you need to learn the stuff, so If you want to go out and play and shoot in the hundreds like the majority.I'm  NOT your guy, go find someone else...LOL..so..I decided to stick with him because I wanted to be better than average. I can see how other people would have walked away. The instructor moved out of state and I lost contact with him.

To summarize. I do believe they all know enough to teach..it is a matter of weather they are a fit for you. The more you know about the golf swing the more difficult I think is to find the right instructor. But what do I know...I still shoot in the nineties. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Hategolf

[Kalnoky]

13 minutes ago, Hategolf said:

*Your ability to understand the message = It took me 6 months to understand what one of my instructors was describing as it relates to the mechanics...but once I did...BINGO...I made a lot of progress really fast. Had I found someone who perhaps communicated in a different way, I would probably be a better player already. 

*The instructor ability to adjust to how you think = I told one of my instructors ...Hey I tried to do wht you are asking me to do and it doesnt work, so let's move on to plan B!...He said There is no plan B..you need to learn the stuff, so If you want to go out and play and shoot in the hundreds like the majority.I'm  NOT your guy, go find someone else...LOL..so..I decided to stick with him because I wanted to be better than average. I can see how other people would have walked away. The instructor moved out of state and I lost contact with him.

I think this ^^^ is 100% accurate.

I don't really understand what my instructor is saying sometimes. It take a few practices for the light bulb to come on. I sometimes think he can do a better job of explaining, but then sometimes I just think I am a slow learner.. probably a bit of both. 

You can play bogie golf with a bad swing, I am living proof of that. If you want to shoot consistently in the 80's you need to learn it the right way. 

[allenc]

1 hour ago, Kalnoky said:

Golf Pros are just teachers, like you have in school. They are facilitators. If you only do the bare minimum, you will get average or below average results. If you put in the effort and do the homework, you will see results - eventually. That being said, it helps to like the guy a little bit.. If he has a foul smelling deodorant or a nervous tic that is distracting, then it's best to look elsewhere. Lessons are not cheap.

 

 

And the difference is, many (most?) of them have little or no training in actual teaching.  Hopefully they are intimate with the golf swing and can play a little but that isn't enough.  I would want an instructor to have spend as much time learning how to teach and how people learn as they've spent on mastering golf technique.

[Kalnoky]

3 minutes ago, allenc said:

And the difference is, many (most?) of them have little or no training in actual teaching.  Hopefully they are intimate with the golf swing and can play a little but that isn't enough.  I would want an instructor to have spend as much time learning how to teach and how people learn as they've spent on mastering golf technique.

This is an excellent point.

[mvmac]

2 hours ago, allenc said:

And the difference is, many (most?) of them have little or no training in actual teaching.  Hopefully they are intimate with the golf swing and can play a little but that isn't enough.  I would want an instructor to have spend as much time learning how to teach and how people learn as they've spent on mastering golf technique.

And little education in what actually happens in a good golf swing.

@paininthenuts, I agree the golf instruction industry leaves a lot to be desired but things are getting better. To find a good instructor is almost like finding a good doctor, have to do your research and some due diligence. Part of the problem is you don't need to pass any sort of certification to start teaching the golf swing and if you do get your PGA membership, the instruction portion is general and some of it is incorrect.

If someone wants to be a good instructor they have to take it upon themselves to find the right people to learn from. TST owner @iacas is doing his part as are others who have some great knowledge to pass along. If you don't have a good one near you I'd recommend Evolvr

http://evolvr.thegolfevolution.com/

 

[JonMA1]

16 hours ago, Patch said:

It goes both ways, as there are bad students too. Saddle a decent club pro with a poor student, then where is the problem? 

It could be argued that what separates a decent instructor with an excellent one is the ability to get through to a poor student.

FWIW, I agree with what you're saying. Sometimes the pro isn't the problem.

[mchepp]

In my opinion it is a double edged sword. On the one hand there are a ton of professional golf instructors who either don't care about learning how to make students better or don't put in the time to make themselves better. On the other hand we as students are generally pretty awful also (less so on this forum but there are still many). We want to get better right away without putting in the necessary time to get better. We want that instant tip that makes us better. We don't want to make swings in slow motion and hit duffs on the range in order to get better. So even a really good instructor can struggle to make people better at times because of lousy students. 

I guess what I am saying is that we need to take a closer look at ourselves as much as we scrutinize our instructor. 

[JustJack2016]

23 hours ago, Hategolf said:

I have taken lessons from 5 pros since I started playing the game. 2 of the pros were great. The others I found them not to be a good fit for me. 

In my opinion, the last sentence of the above quote is a great way to sum up this topic.  There are numerous methods of teaching something and there will always be instances where one student might not "click" with the message/method; however, those same words/technique might make absolute sense to another student.  While it shouldn't impact how we rate the instructor (or student), there seems to be a natural instinct to pin the "he/she stinks" label and then spread the word.  It's wrong--just move on.  If someone really doesn't know what they're doing, survival mode should kick in when they don't have enough students to put food on the table.  The bottom line:  Let others have an unbiased chance to click with their instructor.

The other aspect of this has nothing to do with an instructor's ability, but puts the onus squarely on the student's shoulders.  I've had people tell me I need to take a lesson (or two).  I DON'T need to take a lesson.  Is it because I'm that skilled?  No.  Is it because I can work through my issue-of-the-moment?  Maybe...maybe not.  I've had people try to tell me what I'm doing wrong--I don't want to hear it.  Honestly, I REALLY don't want to hear it.  Again...do I think I'm doing everything perfect?  Nope--I'm having issues and I know it; however, the last thing I want is 50 people providing unsolicited advice.  I believe a student needs to find a person (singular) they click with--and trust--then go to work. THAT encompasses why I DON'T need lessons--I do not possess the mental commitment to practice what somebody is dedicating their time and effort to teach.  Yes, it's my money paying for their services, but I'm absolutely wasting their time.  

 

Right now I'm okay with my infrequent play...so, if I'm being honest with myself, I have to be okay with my inconsistent play.  If and when I'm ready to mentally commit to practicing, that's also when I'll mentally commit myself to listening to what someone is trying to say--and that's the moment I know I'll need lessons.  You'd be amazed how many people begin to make sense when you're actually making an effort to comprehend what they're teaching.  I might be alone in my opinion, but if I were a betting person, I would say there are more bad students than good...