Why Isn't Golf Taught Like Skiing?

[Blackjack Don]

There will always be good and bad teachers as long as there is no standard lesson plan.

I'm going to keep pounding this drum until I get a decent hearing. The Professional Ski Instructors of America twenty-five years ago had it right. There was a way to teach skiing which could be standardized and mastered and anyone can fit somewhere on the learning curve from absolute beginner to the bumps and race course. I could teach someone to bring their skis parallel from a wedge, taught by someone who got them up on skis the first time. Then another pro could take them and teach them how to start their skis parallel, and maybe how to absorb a mogul. It's a process. Golf, I believe, is no different. It has a learning curve which can be broken down and taught from beginner who knows scratch to golfer who plays to scratch. 

I'm a really good student. I've got chops when it comes to learning. I'm seeing the similarities from Hogan to (insert name here). There is no top ski pro. There are lots and lots of experts, all about equal in voice because they are singing from the same songbook, and even more who are like I was--who got the newbies up on skis, to the towline, and down the hill, safely. Those who took advantage of beginner lessons kept skiing. Those who were taught by their fathers or boyfriends did not come back after the first time. See the comparisons at all?

How hard is it to teach a putting stroke? A lot easier than hitting a putt. But there seems to be a thousand ways for a thousand golfers. Yet every single one have to come through the ball square to the line. What percentage would you guess the number of golfers who have actually had a lesson in putting? Self-taught, all the rest of us. The biggest reason most can't hit a four-foot putt every time is because they don't practice them at all, if any. Yet.

If there is an opportunity for growth in golf, the leader in the clubhouse should be the pro--specifically the PGA. There should be a program, Learn to Pitch, Putt and Chip, which is like learning the wedge in skiing, the top-spin forehand in tennis. They are basic moves. 

Increase the pitch to a seven iron, and finally a five iron. Then go out to the 150 yard line and try to get the ball in the hole in two-over. Then one-over. Any pro, anywhere, could take a student at the level they are at and help them progress to the next level. It's not that hard.

Yet, it will never happen. Did I say there are as many excuses as their are golfers? Times ten? It won't get a hearing. Nobody will even think about it, because change is radical and golf is the last holdout for the old school. Too bad. I think the my alternative sounds like a lot more fun and entertaining.

Just my answer to why there are any bad pros at all.

[iacas]

This really has nothing to do with the original topic in which it was posted, so I created a new topic.

50 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I'm going to keep pounding this drum until I get a decent hearing.

I've given my take on this a few times now, IIRC. Heck, the guy with whom I work and I have talked about skiing vs. golf instruction on many occasions (as we both ski or snowboard, too).

50 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

There was a way to teach skiing which could be standardized and mastered and anyone can fit somewhere on the learning curve from absolute beginner to the bumps and race course. I could teach someone to bring their skis parallel from a wedge, taught by someone who got them up on skis the first time. Then another pro could take them and teach them how to start their skis parallel, and maybe how to absorb a mogul. It's a process. Golf, I believe, is no different.

And that's where you go wrong.

Golf is very different.

• It's far more complex. The golf swing involves more things happening in a shorter period of time. The parts are not only moving faster but they require more precision.
• There are multiple ways to swing a golf club successfully. There's really only one way to ski. Virtually every skier looks the same, but golfers you can tell apart from three fairways over.
• Most people who take golf lessons aren't beginners, unlike most people who take skiing lessons. According to the head instructor at the Peak 'n Peek resort, over half of the first-time skiers take lessons. The latest number I've seen in golf is that only 14% of golfers have ever taken a lesson (most not from the beginning).

That said, I - along with a few others - have sought to create a sort of "template" for how people should learn and teach, with "5 Simple Keys®" or "5SK." I won't go on about it, but it's the five commonalities of the game's best players. It helps the golfer to understand their priorities, and it helps the instructor make sure they're working on something that's going to have an actual, positive result. The more you have in common with a great player, after all, the better the player you're going to be. You can find out more on this site or 5sk.com.

50 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I'm a really good student. I've got chops when it comes to learning. I'm seeing the similarities from Hogan to (insert name here). There is no top ski pro. There are lots and lots of experts, all about equal in voice because they are singing from the same songbook, and even more who are like I was--who got the newbies up on skis, to the towline, and down the hill, safely. Those who took advantage of beginner lessons kept skiing. Those who were taught by their fathers or boyfriends did not come back after the first time. See the comparisons at all?

No.

Hey, you asked!

50 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

How hard is it to teach a putting stroke? A lot easier than hitting a putt. But there seems to be a thousand ways for a thousand golfers. Yet every single one have to come through the ball square to the line. What percentage would you guess the number of golfers who have actually had a lesson in putting? Self-taught, all the rest of us. The biggest reason most can't hit a four-foot putt every time is because they don't practice them at all, if any. Yet.

Teaching putting might be as easy as teaching skiing. On that we may agree. Actually, teaching putting might be a little bit easier than teaching skiing. Fewer moving parts. Simpler motion all around.

But obviously you know that putting is not "golf." And putting is itself vastly different than the rest of the golf swing. Chipping and pitching aren't even the same. They're almost opposites (firm wrists, leading edge, extended arms, lower shots that tend to roll out versus the opposite: soft wrists, using the glide, soft, relaxed arms, higher shots that land more vertically and roll out very little).

50 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

If there is an opportunity for growth in golf, the leader in the clubhouse should be the pro--specifically the PGA. There should be a program, Learn to Pitch, Putt and Chip, which is like learning the wedge in skiing, the top-spin forehand in tennis. They are basic moves. 

Increase the pitch to a seven iron, and finally a five iron. Then go out to the 150 yard line and try to get the ball in the hole in two-over. Then one-over. Any pro, anywhere, could take a student at the level they are at and help them progress to the next level. It's not that hard.

It is. In two ways.

In a perfect world, I'd love to get my hands on nearly every beginner who takes up the game of golf. I could train a monkey to teach them to putt reasonably well. Sure thing.

But it's not going to happen, and only a tiny part of that is because of the PGA or golf instructors. A lot of it is that that's not how golfers want to take up the game. Few golfers already take lessons, and now you want the BEGINNER to take lessons? They don't even know if they like golf yet, and one of the things that makes them like it is hitting the ball in the air much farther than they've ever thrown or hit anything else. That isn't accomplished by working on their putting, and then their chipping. That is boring. People will not want to learn to putt for hours, then learn to chip for several more hours, before they even get a chance to hit a ball over 10 yards. They'll leave the game immediately. They'll find it boring.

Heck, my first introduction to golf was getting to whack a 5-wood off a tee down the fairway. The ball probably only went 150 yards, but damn that was far! Major league sluggers rarely even hit a baseball that far!

New golfers don't want to putt for hours, then chip. They want to see the ball go in the air. And they sure as heck don't want to pay even $50 to learn to putt. They want to get outside and occasionally whack the ball and have it go in the air and far. They want to know if they even like the darn game first.

Golf is a vastly different thing than skiing. New skiers take lessons. They're not only fearful of getting hurt, but lessons are simple, easy to teach, and relatively inexpensive. That's not true in golf.

50 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Yet, it will never happen. Did I say there are as many excuses as their are golfers? Times ten? It won't get a hearing. Nobody will even think about it, because change is radical and golf is the last holdout for the old school. Too bad. I think the my alternative sounds like a lot more fun and entertaining.

I understand that you believe that. But perhaps it's not because the industry or golfers are close-minded. Perhaps it's simply that your way isn't feasible. It's not how golfers want to learn, and comparing it to skiing is a non-starter due to the very wide and substantial differences between the two sports.

[GolfLug]

My take on the differences (I am ok at both skiing and golf and took them up both for the first time in my 30s):

The physiological aspect of creating leverage with a golf club (specifically the business end - club head) is lot more counter-intuitive than any other instrumented sports (tennis..etc.) let alone body leveraged motion like skiing. Longer the club, more the leverage, less the brain can intuitively 'control' it, or heck even 'know' it, which is why the easiest looking and feeling swings often create the most speed. The poor brain simply cannot comprehend the neurological feedback and in turn send properly metered leverage signals to execute. 

In fact creating proper amount and proper directional leverage with a golf is neurologically so complex that it is actually better to learn feels backwards by hitting positions extremely slowly (mapping). Hence use of camera, mirror work etc. to monitor positions is so important. No amount of you tube video watching and 'knowledging' can substitute that. Give your poor brain a chance to learn by mapping. Hence lot of us who just want to learn golf by just 'feels' don't get too far (there are always blessed exceptions, but lets not get caught up in that).

In skiing, what you feel is for most parts is exactly what you are doing. Much easier to learn intuitively. Half hour of basic instruction got me off the bunny hill the very next day for good.     

[No Mulligans]

Skiing is more of a natural movement (especially with modern equipment).  It is much easier to be a beginner at skiing than golf. 

[allenc]

Skiing is like riding a bike.  It's not intuitive right off the bat, but with some simple instruction and practice most people can learn to get from here to there pretty easily.  Of course there are tricks, racing, difficult slopes/bmw courses but if you can move around fluently you can be said to have mastered it.  And that take a couple weeks.

On the other hand hitting a golf ball is hard as hell and pretty much nobody can do it no matter how many years they practice (slight exaggeration).

[Marigold_Sparkle]

The need to consider safety is far greater in something like skiing than it is in golf. If you screw someone up in skiing, there's real potential they could get seriously hurt, or killed. If you screw someone up in golf, the worst thing that could happen to them, most likely, is they end up getting into lots of idiotic discussions on golf forums. This leaves the door open for screwball theories and outlandish pursuit. It also seems that many golfers enjoy the relentless search for magical cures.

[Hatchman]

5 hours ago, Marigold_Sparkle said:

The need to consider safety is far greater in something like skiing than it is in golf. If you screw someone up in skiing, there's real potential they could get seriously hurt, or killed. If you screw someone up in golf, the worst thing that could happen to them, most likely, is they end up getting into lots of idiotic discussions on golf forums. This leaves the door open for screwball theories and outlandish pursuit. It also seems that many golfers enjoy the relentless search for magical cures.

Fair statements.  Safety first, even in golf though I've come to believe.  Knees bend, hips and ankles rotate.  Hit a golf ball flat footed not transferring weight to the front or getting off that back foot at finish may make a knee mad.  Probably need to contact an instructor for a cure or a trainer for therapy for more details if not practiced.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Hatchman

[boogielicious]

I've taught swimming and lifesaving. Both these are not natural things for humans to do. IMO, the golf swing is more complex and more difficult to master.

For swimming, we were all taught to teach strokes the same way because the organization that certifies swimming teachers, the Red Cross with WSI, has one consistent approach. They update from time to time with little tweaks, but it is generally the same. Same for lifesaving. There are some intricacies to swim faster, at a higher level, but the approach is the same. 

For golf, there is not the same consistency in instruction. Add to that the differences in Pro swings from the untrained eye. Nicklaus swing looks different than Woods or Furyk or Palmer. Inbee Park and Michelle Wei look very different. We know they all have the same 5 Simple Keys, but they get there differently.

From that, teachers seem to create different approaches and state that different things are important. It is getting better, but it is still all over the place. And because the PGA doesn't really teach you how to teach, and anyone and their cousin can become a golf instructor, it will be difficult to get them all in line.

[Blackjack Don]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

That said, I - along with a few others - have sought to create a sort of "template" for how people should learn and teach, with "5 Simple Keys®" or "5SK."

Yes! And the Golf Machine and Bobby Clampett's Impact Zone. THIS is what I'm talking about, man, so why aren't we talking about how to get more and more creative with the whole nine yards? You of all people I would think would at least give it an open mind.

You have two contradictory thoughts:

--You have thought about it and discussed with others and have laid a foundation for a system. 

--You say you don't believe there is a system.

I'm confused.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

You have two contradictory thoughts:

--You have thought about it and discussed with others and have laid a foundation for a system. 

--You say you don't believe there is a system.

I'm confused.

Those aren't contradictory. We made the best system we can think of. We apply it to those we instruct.

But it's not a step by step thing in the least. You can't teach a high schooler how to teach it in a week. And how to achieve the individual keys is different for almost everyone.

Again, golf is far, FAR more complex than skiing, and people come to instruction far, FAR later.

P.S. TGM is not a method nor is it simple. Or up-to-date.

[Blackjack Don]

First, I am not comparing golf and skiing as the same. They obviously are not. From the comments so far, I have to believe that there are a bunch of folks out there that don't know a whole bunch about skiing. If you go to any ski area anywhere, you'll see the majority of skiers sitting back on the tails of their skis. If it's pointed out to you, because it takes a trained eye to see. The results however are obvious. Much like some golfers who have most of their weight on the right side and try to "lift" the ball. I've spent weeks trying to get someone to press their shins into the front of their boots, get the weight forward onto the front of their skis.

Yes, the technology of skiing has improved from my day. So has golf. It's been a century since I've been out skiing, but I'm willing to bet that skiers aren't that much better now, just like golf. My view is this is a failure of instruction in both skiing and golf.

But, again, I'm not comparing skiing and golf as activities. I spent twenty years playing pretty high-level tennis. I wouldn't even compare tennis and golf, but they share a lot of similarities in instruction. I would say tennis might be more agreement among tennis instructors than golf instructors. There is a way to hit a forehand that was first identified by Vic Braden. Lots of pros hit a forehand differently, and many of them suck at it, but they all have the racket face in the same position on impact. Same as golf.

But I maintain two thoughts:

1. Everybody is dissatisfied with golf instruction.

2. Golf professionals are obstinately clinging to the status quo.

Don thinks the two are related, and there is a better way. At least there should be discussion. 

 

[Blackjack Don]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

Those aren't contradictory. We made the best system we can think of. We apply it to those we instruct.

But it's not a step by step thing in the least. You can't teach a high schooler how to teach it in a week. And how to achieve the individual keys is different for almost everyone.

Again, golf is far, FAR more complex than skiing, and people come to instruction far, FAR later.

P.S. TGM is not a method nor is it simple. Or up-to-date.

Erik, I have a great deal of respect for you. I doubt we are as far apart in our view as you might think. I like your swing keys. Either skiing is a lot harder than you think, or golf is easier. Neither is easy to do very, very well. There are probably fewer good skiers. One can develop some kind of swing without a weight shift. Sitting back on skis is a good way to hit a tree. Forget about making gates on a course. I'm sure if you talked to a professional ski instructor you might get a different view of skiing. Being good ain't easy.

What drives me crazy is when people point out the exceptions as if that disproves what I'm saying. Yes, there are golfers who have odd swings yet hit the ball well. So let me ask you a question.

Is a putt fundamentally different than a medium iron?

[No Mulligans]

18 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Yes, the technology of skiing has improved from my day. So has golf. It's been a century since I've been out skiing, but I'm willing to bet that skiers aren't that much better now, just like golf. My view is this is a failure of instruction in both skiing and golf.

 

I grew up with my dad working at a ski resort and have had a season pass for the last 53 years.

You'd lose that bet.  Skiers are much better on average now.  Why speak of something you know nothing about, you admittied you haven't skied in a century.

There use to be a down up unweighting motions, shifting weight to the outside ski...  Long skinny skis, leather lace boots, cable bindings.  

 Now, just roll your knees to the inside of your turn and keep your weight forward will get you most of the way there.  Beginners can move past the snow plow stage (now called wedge) in a day or two.  The advanced runs that use to have just a few skiers a day are know crowded with skiers.

[Blackjack Don]

Next time you go out, pay attention to how many skiers have their weight forward over the tips, and how many are sitting back on the tails. Simple physics. Ski boots are stiff. Rear-closing boots helped, but ski racers still use front buckles. Some things don't change. 

Look, I'm only advocating for a system. We have a way to teach a difficult--and it IS difficult--sport. Just because it's easier doesn't make it easy. As long as everyone insists there is no one way to hit a golf ball, then most golfers will be

Lousy golfers

Who take too long to play.

Get frustrated.

And quit.

My goal would be a USGA/PGA commercial which says "Golf has never been easier. See a pro today to find out how." Not so much the smugness of "Thank a pro." Does anyone really think self-congratulations are in order?

[Blackjack Don]

40 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

There use to be a down up unweighting motions, shifting weight to the outside ski...  Long skinny skis, leather lace boots, cable bindings.  

 Now, just roll your knees to the inside of your turn and keep your weight forward will get you most of the way there.  Beginners can move past the snow plow stage (now called wedge) in a day or two.  The advanced runs that use to have just a few skiers a day are know crowded with skiers.

Bolded. Yes, and you can thank the PSIA for that. I know, because I was there when all that happened. When the PSIA went from being all over the place to really professional. They consolidated all the teaching knowledge, formulated a program, taught it to members who accepted it, and did clinic after clinic. AFIK, all the professionals bought in on it. I got certified, and attended clinics every year. So far I've heard nothing at all which persuades me the PSIA isn't right and the PGA wrong.

Hell, even a program that all PGA pros teach called "Down the Line" which teaches the fundamental of the proper swing path would be a step forward.

Three times I've been on the range and heard someone thump, thump, thump on the mats as they hit behind the ball. Finally, as much my frustration as mine, I suggested they aim two inches in front of the ball. Whack! I'm not kidding, they immediately gained results. You should have seen the joy in their eyes. Just this one small tip. In one case, I thought the old dude was going to hug me.

I don't know shit, but if something like this happens, one should pay attention! Forget about wrong or right. Focus on what it means.

I promise you. This is not a big deal. It's just change.

[Blackjack Don]

Just saw a slow-motion replay of Rory McIlroy hitting a driver. I wish I could post it here. It's flawless. It's old hat to the announcers, but even they had a bit of awe in their voices. This is the way to hit a driver. Anyone who hits it differently may be getting the most out of their swing, but it's a deviation from Rory's tee shot. There is a way to hit a golf ball that is the correct way. 

Can McIlroy hit it this way every time. Duh. That's obvious. No, no one can. But just because this is true, that is not true. It is true no one can hit it like that every time, but that doesn't mean there isn't a right way, and that it isn't teachable. This is a matter of logic, I think.

Now, if we try to achieve a repeatable swing, then teaching should also be consistent. There is where the flaw is. 

Just because I disagree with the norm, doesn't make me abnormal. It doesn't make one of us right and one of us wrong. It means that we both agree there needs to be change in golf, but we disagree on the method to change it. First, let's keep our minds open. I'm listening to everything you all are saying. I promise. We've all heard it before.

:)

If this is it, then really I have nothing else to say. I've made my case. Let history judge it. Maybe we can get the average golfer around 90 and I can get around in four hours.

Peace

[Golfingdad]

11 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Just saw a slow-motion replay of Rory McIlroy hitting a driver. I wish I could post it here.

For future reference, if you can find it on YouTube, or upload it yourself to YouTube, you can embed a video here.

[iacas]

37 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

First, I am not comparing golf and skiing as the same.

You clearly think they have similarities - or should have more similarities.

37 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

From the comments so far, I have to believe that there are a bunch of folks out there that don't know a whole bunch about skiing. If you go to any ski area anywhere, you'll see the majority of skiers sitting back on the tails of their skis.

I'm no expert, but I can get down the intermediate hills just fine on a snowboard, and we live near - again - one of the top resorts in the area. Peak 'n Peek is only 35 minutes away. I know some of the instructors and some of the more advanced skiers.

I'm perfectly happy to concede that you know more about skiing than I do (though maybe not if you haven't skied in forever), but we're talking about golf and golf instruction here.

37 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Much like some golfers who have most of their weight on the right side and try to "lift" the ball. I've spent weeks trying to get someone to press their shins into the front of their boots, get the weight forward onto the front of their skis.

You say you're not comparing the two but you keep doing it.

Maybe it took weeks to teach someone that one thing, but that's probably your outlier. "Weeks" in golf is almost standard practice. It takes weeks for some people to be comfortable with a grip change. Hell, it took Tiger Woods - arguably the best ever - months to over a year to get comfortable with the swing changes he's made throughout his career.

37 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Yes, the technology of skiing has improved from my day. So has golf. It's been a century since I've been out skiing, but I'm willing to bet that skiers aren't that much better now, just like golf. My view is this is a failure of instruction in both skiing and golf.

Someone who knows more about skiing answered that part and said you'd lose that bet. Why continue to talk about skiing if you haven't been involved for "a century"?

37 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

But, again, I'm not comparing skiing and golf as activities. I spent twenty years playing pretty high-level tennis. I wouldn't even compare tennis and golf, but they share a lot of similarities in instruction.

Tennis, too, is a simpler game IMO. More margin for error, fewer types of "swings," a significantly larger target, an opponent that can make mistakes to your advantage, etc.

37 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I would say tennis might be more agreement among tennis instructors than golf instructors. There is a way to hit a forehand that was first identified by Vic Braden. Lots of pros hit a forehand differently, and many of them suck at it, but they all have the racket face in the same position on impact. Same as golf.

I don't agree it's the same. Jim Furyk looks very different at impact than Patrick Reed. Or Tiger, or Tommy Gainey.

I do think that tennis is more similar to golf than skiing. I doubt every tennis player looks almost exactly the same at impact for the same type of shot. I would believe you if you told me they were more similar than golf, and be doubtful if you told me they were MORE different than in golf.

But tennis is more similar to golf than skiing is to golf, I think.

37 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

But I maintain two thoughts:

1. Everybody is dissatisfied with golf instruction.

2. Golf professionals are obstinately clinging to the status quo.

Don thinks the two are related, and there is a better way. At least there should be discussion. 

1. I disagree. I think there are a number of golfers - golfers who have found good instructors and appreciate that it's a difficult game - who are very satisfied with golf instruction. We've had a number of successes teaching people online, even.
2. No, they're not. The bad ones are - and they make up the majority of golf instruction IMO for sure… but you can't lump everyone together.

And I disagree with your third point too: there are discussions all the time about how to better golf instruction. The bad instructors aren't participating in them. The good ones are.

27 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Erik, I have a great deal of respect for you.

Any lack of agreement has nothing to do with respect. In either direction.

27 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I doubt we are as far apart in our view as you might think. I like your swing keys. Either skiing is a lot harder than you think, or golf is easier. Neither is easy to do very, very well.

We're not talking about making people world class. I'm talking about getting people to 9-ish handicaps in both sports. I'm talking about achieving competency.

IMO, from what I know and what I've gleaned from others, it's much, much easier to become competent in skiing than in golf.

27 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

One can develop some kind of swing without a weight shift.

I still think golf is an order of magnitude more complex than skiing. There's more to golf (and skiing, but I'm saying WAY more to golf) than a "weight shift").

1 minute ago, Blackjack Don said:

Look, I'm only advocating for a system. We have a way to teach a difficult--and it IS difficult--sport. Just because it's easier doesn't make it easy. As long as everyone insists there is no one way to hit a golf ball, then most golfers will be

Lousy golfers

Who take too long to play.

Get frustrated.

And quit.

The thing is… There is no one way to hit a golf ball.

That's part of the complexity.

And even if there was "one way" to swing a golf club, again:

• Beginners don't often take lessons. So they're all coming to the instruction from very different points.
• Even if you choose one single swing, there are still ten different types of shots you have to become proficient at to play decent golf.
• Even golfers who play golf often don't take lessons. Many more skiers take lessons (by percentage).

11 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

You'd lose that bet.  Skiers are much better on average now.  Why speak of something you know nothing about, you admittied you haven't skied in a century.

There use to be a down up unweighting motions, shifting weight to the outside ski...  Long skinny skis, leather lace boots, cable bindings.  

Now, just roll your knees to the inside of your turn and keep your weight forward will get you most of the way there. Beginners can move past the snow plow stage (now called wedge) in a day or two.  The advanced runs that use to have just a few skiers a day are know crowded with skiers.

That lines up with the few things I've been told about modern ski instruction. I learned to snowboard (on my own) in the late 80s to early 90s, so I never even had ski instruction.

I do know that my kid can take ski lessons with her school in an after-school program for middle schoolers. They churn out proficient skiers. You couldn't do that in golf over the span of a few months, going 3x a month.

22 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Bolded. Yes, and you can thank the PSIA for that. I know, because I was there when all that happened. When the PSIA went from being all over the place to really professional. They consolidated all the teaching knowledge, formulated a program, taught it to members who accepted it, and did clinic after clinic. AFIK, all the professionals bought in on it. I got certified, and attended clinics every year. So far I've heard nothing at all which persuades me the PSIA isn't right and the PGA wrong.

Then I don't know what to tell you. You're going to come across as increasingly unwilling to listen.

To some this conversation may come across as a guy who has been out of touch with skiing for "a century" and who isn't likely to even break 100 on a golf course saying that golf instruction should be more like skiing instruction… No?

22 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Three times I've been on the range and heard someone thump, thump, thump on the mats as they hit behind the ball. Finally, as much my frustration as mine, I suggested they aim two inches in front of the ball. Whack! I'm not kidding, they immediately gained results. You should have seen the joy in their eyes. Just this one small tip. In one case, I thought the old dude was going to hug me.

That's what's known as a band-aid fix.

1 minute ago, Blackjack Don said:

Just saw a slow-motion replay of Rory McIlroy hitting a driver. I wish I could post it here. It's flawless.

It's not flawless. He gets stuck. He swings too far out to the right.

1 minute ago, Blackjack Don said:

It's old hat to the announcers, but even they had a bit of awe in their voices. This is the way to hit a driver.

Those same announcers will marvel at the driving of Patrick Reed one week, Dustin Johnson AND Rory McIlroy the next week, Jordan Spieth and Zach Johnson the week after that, and then Adam Scott the week after that. They all swing the club differently, and they all swing it differently than Jack Nicklaus did, or Greg Norman did. Or Billy Casper. Or Calvin Peete. All good drivers.

1 minute ago, Blackjack Don said:

There is a way to hit a golf ball that is the correct way.

Nothing suggests that's true.

Never mind that even if you picked Rory McIlroy as your model, 99% of golfers couldn't swing the club that way, and teaching them would be worse than the current situation. Heck, probably 95%+ of PGA Tour players couldn't swing the driver the way Rory McIlroy does.

1 minute ago, Blackjack Don said:

Now, if we try to achieve a repeatable swing, then teaching should also be consistent. There is where the flaw is.

You're too hung up on the idea that it's good - or even possible - to teach everyone the same swing.

I did one Google search and in the top three results found this page:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/public/avancedtennis/evolution_modern_forehand/evolution_modern_forehand_part1/roger_federer_evolution_modern_forehand_part1.html

It discusses how Roger Federer's forehand is different than almost anyone else's. There's not even one way to swing a tennis racket.

1 minute ago, Blackjack Don said:

Just because I disagree with the norm, doesn't make me abnormal. It doesn't make one of us right and one of us wrong. It means that we both agree there needs to be change in golf, but we disagree on the method to change it. First, let's keep our minds open. I'm listening to everything you all are saying. I promise. We've all heard it before.

My mind is plenty open. I spend 40-80 hours a week thinking about this stuff. I teach other instructors in addition to golfers. I've taught beginners and Tour players.

You're giving no credit to how complex golf is, how late and how few golfers seek instruction, and just how difficult the game is to even get competent, let alone proficient.