Swing Speed Increase With Less Effort

[RH31]

On ‎1‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 11:20 PM, Hacker James said:

and here is the "no cut" video (I presume). Also, let me be clear, I am not saying I agree or disagree with the content, My purpose was to simply say that I found the results to be surprizing and perhaps not easily obtained. People can make their own decisions as to the validity of the video or instruction.

 

Thanks for posting!!! Some of the same stuff Malaska talks about with the wrists. Can't wait to work on the drills!!

Much of this hits home with me and my swing problems. I don't cock my wrists and set the club at the top like I used to when I was younger. My swing, overall, is just much too tight and I can feel it.

[Hacker James]

2 minutes ago, RH31 said:

Thanks for posting!!! Some of the same stuff Malaska talks about with the wrists. Can't wait to work on the drills!!

Much of this hits home with me and my swing problems. I don't cock my wrists and set the club at the top like I used to when I was younger. My swing, overall, is just much too tight and I can feel it.

its okay. Some like his thoughts and methods, others do not. You would have to read the entire original thread referred to above to get details. Some of his ideas are a little strange though, others I agree with. I have not followed him in a couple of years now.

[sirhacksalot]

On 1/25/2017 at 11:52 AM, Rainmaker said:

In my own wanderings/learnings . .I have come to believe..in no small part because it's what my instructor tells me..that "effortless" golf swing is at best a feel and at worst a myth.  Most of us who struggle with "Powerless Effort" are putting that effort in the wrong places and at the wrong times.  

 

This rings so true to me, and i would even take it one step further and call it a felt instead of a feel.  For example step up to the tee thinking about something my kid said, hit the ball, and smash it.  That felt effortless, like my arms had no tension and my wrist were loose.  The minute i try to purposely do those things i stalling and hitting super hooks or turning the lower seperately and hitting wonderous push blocks

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, sirhacksalot said:

This rings so true to me, and i would even take it one step further and call it a felt instead of a feel.  For example step up to the tee thinking about something my kid said, hit the ball, and smash it.  That felt effortless, like my arms had no tension and my wrist were loose.  The minute i try to purposely do those things i stalling and hitting super hooks or turning the lower seperately and hitting wonderous push blocks

There's a mountain of evidence out there that speaks to this.

Your perception of something changes in the instant the outcome is known. A basketball player puts up a last-second jumper after dribbling around a defender or two, and if the shot goes in his memory, how he felt his body was working, the effort expended, etc. during that time is mostly of ease, fluidity, etc. If it bricks, he'll talk about how it felt funny coming off his fingertips, how he struggled to get around the defenders and was worried about the clock, etc.

We see it on a much bigger level after, say, the Super Bowl or the Stanley Cup Finals or whatever: the winning team feels no pain, the losing team is already nursing their injuries.

Such is the power of the chemicals in our brains and bodies.

The effect of the shot literally changes our memory or feelings about what just happened.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

There's a mountain of evidence out there that speaks to this.

Your perception of something changes in the instant the outcome is known. A basketball player puts up a last-second jumper after dribbling around a defender or two, and if the shot goes in his memory, how he felt his body was working, the effort expended, etc. during that time is mostly of ease, fluidity, etc. If it bricks, he'll talk about how it felt funny coming off his fingertips, how he struggled to get around the defenders and was worried about the clock, etc.

We see it on a much bigger level after, say, the Super Bowl or the Stanley Cup Finals or whatever: the winning team feels no pain, the losing team is already nursing their injuries.

Such is the power of the chemicals in our brains and bodies.

The effect of the shot literally changes our memory or feelings about what just happened.

I hadn't really thought about this before, but, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[No Mulligans]

His wrist position looks pretty normal to me.  No loosey wrists here, just inline impact, weight forward, etc. (the 115 mph swing):

 

[iacas]

23 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

His wrist position looks pretty normal to me.  No loosey wrists here, just inline impact, weight forward, etc. (the 115 mph swing):

Yep.

Look, I teach "feels" all day. No problem with feels.

But I tend not to like them in videos when they're ONLY about the feels, and particularly so when the feels are very different than the reality.

I've made videos on feels, but I try to discuss the mechanics first so people know what the goal is, and then give the feel that might help them achieve the mechanics.

[Lime Shark]

IMHO, if you don't learn to swing by rotating your body, you will never achieve a really high swing speed.

I'm no saying you should have a completely passive/relaxed arm swing, but I do think having active arms/hands can get in the way of learning to rotate.

If you take your arms out of the equation by letting them be passive on the downswing, learn to swing only using body rotation, and THEN add your arms back in you'll end up with a faster swing.

[gregsandiego]

On 1/27/2017 at 6:59 AM, iacas said:

There's a mountain of evidence out there that speaks to this.

Your perception of something changes in the instant the outcome is known. A basketball player puts up a last-second jumper after dribbling around a defender or two, and if the shot goes in his memory, how he felt his body was working, the effort expended, etc. during that time is mostly of ease, fluidity, etc. If it bricks, he'll talk about how it felt funny coming off his fingertips, how he struggled to get around the defenders and was worried about the clock, etc.

We see it on a much bigger level after, say, the Super Bowl or the Stanley Cup Finals or whatever: the winning team feels no pain, the losing team is already nursing their injuries.

Such is the power of the chemicals in our brains and bodies.

The effect of the shot literally changes our memory or feelings about what just happened.

Interesting ideas. So how about doing it in reverse? Start out with those feelings somehow. 

 

[gregsandiego]

On 1/27/2017 at 6:24 AM, RH31 said:

Thanks for posting!!! Some of the same stuff Malaska talks about with the wrists. Can't wait to work on the drills!!

Much of this hits home with me and my swing problems. I don't cock my wrists and set the club at the top like I used to when I was younger. My swing, overall, is just much too tight and I can feel it.

His student is good. If my instructor makes me change one or especially 2 items, I immediately mishit.

[Hacker James]

1 hour ago, gregsandiego said:

Interesting ideas. So how about doing it in reverse? Start out with those feelings somehow. 

 

Zen Golf!

[Buckeyebowman]

I just re-read the title to this thread and decided that instead of "swing speed increase with less EFFORT'', it should be "with less TENSION". It was none other than Tiger Woods who said he didn't want to feel a single tense muscle in his body before he started a swing.

Of course there will be some tension there, but if you consciously "feel" it, it could mean you are over doing it!

[gregsandiego]

2 hours ago, Hacker James said:

Zen Golf!

Good phrase. I was going to say existentialist but i like Zen golf better. I see an interesting book on Amazon by that title.

[Hacker James]

18 hours ago, gregsandiego said:

Good phrase. I was going to say existentialist but i like Zen golf better. I see an interesting book on Amazon by that title.

There are lots of books out about Zen. One I mentioned previously, was named Zen and the art of motorcycle repair. It actually had nothing at all to do with motorcycle repair other than a few references, but mostly a Chautauqua concerning the travels of a guy and his son across the US.

[inthecup]

I get the best results when my forearms are loose or not tense, I feel I drop my arms into impact as i push the butt of the grip towards the target.  The club then whips through and generates speed.

If you have a death grip on the club and are consumed with controlling the face you kill speed and distance.

I get what he is saying in general but it is not magic. 

[Marty2019]

I'm trying to freeze frame the video, and it looks to me like the student is casting the club initially, and when he relaxes, he gets more lag.  I managed to freeze it at 2:01 and the student is majorly casting the club.   At the 7:50 mark, the student is initiating his downswing from the ground up, keeping his hands and arms relaxed, leaving the clubhead behind, which creates a lot more clubhead speed. 

I think that's all there is to it.  He's just teaching him how to rotate better and get more lag.  Nothing revolutionary about it, it's just that when the student relaxes, it's a much better swing. 

I think for most people, if their hands and wrists are too tense, they will cast the club.  I know that is true for me.  Relaxing the hands and wrists for most people is the only way to stop casting the club.  

 

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Marty2019

[Hacker James]

that is Paul's basic premise. Tension restricts. His description could be misleading however. He says "powerless arms" when he really means to basically just stay relaxed, free from tension.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Hacker James

[GolfLug]

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 9:59 AM, iacas said:

There's a mountain of evidence out there that speaks to this.

Your perception of something changes in the instant the outcome is known. A basketball player puts up a last-second jumper after dribbling around a defender or two, and if the shot goes in his memory, how he felt his body was working, the effort expended, etc. during that time is mostly of ease, fluidity, etc. If it bricks, he'll talk about how it felt funny coming off his fingertips, how he struggled to get around the defenders and was worried about the clock, etc.

We see it on a much bigger level after, say, the Super Bowl or the Stanley Cup Finals or whatever: the winning team feels no pain, the losing team is already nursing their injuries.

Such is the power of the chemicals in our brains and bodies.

The effect of the shot literally changes our memory or feelings about what just happened.

Outstanding post. Off topic, but we all need to incorporate this in learning new feels and pictures and developing confidence in spite of known short term outcomes. Feel ain't real or at best is contextual right?