Should Tour Players Have Their Own Set of Rules?

[bmartin461]

Given the vast changes being proposed for 2019, some of which might greatly favor higher skilled players (flag stick left in the hole), do you think there should be two sets of rules?

I can see the argument both ways and I do think tour players play a different game than amateurs do, course setup, difficulty etc. 

What do you think?

[iacas]

  On 3/2/2017 at 3:48 PM, bmartin461 said:

Given the vast changes being proposed for 2019, some of which might greatly favor higher skilled players (flag stick left in the hole), do you think there should be two sets of rules?

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No. A hundred times… no.

And I actually think the flagstick rule:

• lowers the separation between good and not-as-good putters.
• will not survive to the final 2019 rules.

[bmartin461]

  On 3/2/2017 at 3:51 PM, iacas said:

• will not survive to the final 2019 rules.

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That's a good point.

Follow up question: If all the proposed rules changes did happen, would the average tour scores drop significantly?   Would we find more sub-60 rounds happening?

[klineka]

I say no, they should have the same rules. Other sports are similar. High school/College baseball has very similar rules to professional baseball, obviously metal bats are the major difference, but outside of the distances of home run fences (similar to different course lengths) the general rules aren't really all that different. Baseball is considered a more "traditional" and slower paced game like golf, but unfortunately I think that deters many young kids from watching and being fans of the sport. I think if anything, rules for golf need to be made less traditional for all participants, tour pros and amateurs alike. 

Same with basketball, other than the shot clock and how long the quarter/halves are, one of the only differences is the distance of the 3 point line (again similar to different course lengths) Soccer is the same, other than the size of the field, and potentially the ball/goal for smaller kids, the differences in the rules aren't all that different.  

[David in FL]

No to bifurcation.

No to significantly better tour scores.  Nothing in the proposed rule changes necessarily makes the game any easier.  I also think/hope that the flagstick change doesn't make the final cut.

[rehmwa]

No - for those that are aspiring to become pros, it's best they are indoctrinated in the same rules while an amateur

[DaveP043]

I strongly prefer that we all play by the same rules.  I don't see anything in the suggested changes that changes my mind.  I don't see the revised rules making the game must "easier", so I don't see scores changing.  I'd guess that the change allowing additional areas to be marked as hazard could drop a stroke or two occasionally, but I'm guessing that most times the committee will set the hazards in accordance with the more traditional hazard definition.  I'm sure some of the players will hate adjusting to a few of them, especially the caddie not lining them up, but good players will adjust.  

  On 3/2/2017 at 3:48 PM, bmartin461 said:

I can see the argument both ways and I do think tour players play a different game than amateurs do, course setup, difficulty etc. 

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To be honest, I don't think that the courses are that much tougher, overall.  Sure, they're longer, but they're also groomed to perfection, which makes things much more predictable.  Given the distance that the best players in the world hit the ball, they're often hitting the same club to a green as I am from "my" tees, except they hot those shots more consistently accurate than I do.

[GolfLug]

Yeah, they should not have handicaps like amateurs do.

Oh, wait..

[DaveP043]

I just reread some of the twitter feeds from Graham DaLaet and Daniel Berger, saying they want to have their own rules, divorced from the "old boy club".  I'd really be interested to see them come up with their specific suggestions as to what the "PGA Tour" rules would look like.  Its awful easy to complain, but its really tough to actually come up with something that's both fair (or equitable) and comprehensive.  If you want your own rules, get off your backside and come up with an actual proposal.

[bmartin461]

  On 3/2/2017 at 4:29 PM, DaveP043 said:

I just reread some of the twitter feeds from Graham DaLaet and Daniel Berger, saying they want to have their own rules, divorced from the "old boy club".  I'd really be interested to see them come up with their specific suggestions as to what the "PGA Tour" rules would look like.  Its awful easy to complain, but its really tough to actually come up with something that's both fair (or equitable) and comprehensive.  If you want your own rules, get off your backside and come up with an actual proposal.

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Yes, I read the same stuff this morning which prompted me to ask here.  It is interesting that there are a few tour players who say they should have their own set.

[iacas]

  On 3/2/2017 at 4:29 PM, DaveP043 said:

I just reread some of the twitter feeds from Graham DaLaet and Daniel Berger, saying they want to have their own rules, divorced from the "old boy club".  I'd really be interested to see them come up with their specific suggestions as to what the "PGA Tour" rules would look like.  Its awful easy to complain, but its really tough to actually come up with something that's both fair (or equitable) and comprehensive.  If you want your own rules, get off your backside and come up with an actual proposal.

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They're whiny and would probably want stuff like Lift, Clean, and Place in your fairway, and other stupid things like the divot holes thing regular people complain about, too.

Look, most PGA Tour players don't even know the Rules very well. So they're some of the least qualified players to comment on the Rules.

I can't imagine what they'd come up with.

[WUTiger]

I didn't vote in the poll because neither option captured what I thought.

I would suggest that such special rules for pros should be handled under Conditions of Competition. For example, some tournaments enforce the one ball condition. This requires you to play the same brand and model of ball throughout the round. This means you can't use a distance ball on a 600-yd. par 5, and then switch to a high-spin ball on a 140-yd. par 3 with a small green.

[Blackjack Don]

Once upon a time they used tea cups of soil to tee the ball up. In the distant past, we used to say "Play it as it lies." We had "winter rules."

This is a dumb argument. They play by the set of rules they agree to. The easy part is keep the set of rules as they are (or were a hundred years ago). The hard part would be coming up with a new set of rules which grows the game. 

Despite what 90% of you want, at some point the game will shrink--and grow even more expensive which means exclusive--which means at some point probably everyone hear will be unable to afford it. (The rich aren't here; they have their caddies read it to them.) 

How many poor kids do you see yachting?

  On 3/2/2017 at 4:44 PM, WUTiger said:

I didn't vote in the poll because neither option captured what I thought.

I would suggest that such special rules for pros should be handled under Conditions of Competition. For example, some tournaments enforce the one ball condition. This requires you to play the same brand and model of ball throughout the round. This means you can't use a distance ball on a 600-yd. par 5, and then switch to a high-spin ball on a 140-yd. par 3 with a small green.

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Somehow folks perceive golf as being true to itself. For expedience sake (aka money), it is a chameleon. Pretty obvious, actually, but easily concealed from people.

[David in FL]

  On 3/2/2017 at 4:49 PM, Blackjack Don said:

Once upon a time they used tea cups of soil to tee the ball up. In the distant past, we used to say "Play it as it lies." We had "winter rules."

This is a dumb argument. They play by the set of rules they agree to. The easy part is keep the set of rules as they are (or were a hundred years ago). The hard part would be coming up with a new set of rules which grows the game. 

Despite what 90% of you want, at some point the game will shrink--and grow even more expensive which means exclusive--which means at some point probably everyone hear will be unable to afford it. (The rich aren't here; they have their caddies read it to them.) 

How many poor kids do you see yachting?

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What the heck does any of that have to do with whether the Tour implements a different set of rules for themselves?  

[iacas]

  On 3/2/2017 at 4:49 PM, Blackjack Don said:

Despite what 90% of you want, at some point the game will shrink--and grow even more expensive which means exclusive--which means at some point probably everyone hear will be unable to afford it. (The rich aren't here; they have their caddies read it to them.) 

How many poor kids do you see yachting?

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Huh?

And yeah, what's that got to do with the topic here at all?

[Rainmaker]

It's a trick question - they have to do both play by the official rules of golf as well as whatever local rules are in play for that tournament (ie - all sand areas treated as bunkers).

 

But as to different rules for pros vs ams . .I say no, would never work.  We already want to play with pro gear from the pro tees, etc . . .we'd just add "by the pro rules" to that list. 

 

[Shooting29]

The argument against bifurcation is why stop at just two sets of rules? If there are two sets of rules what set do elite amateurs play? What about the players a step under them competing in regional amateur play? And the players under them competing in state and local events?

There are too many levels of play to have two sets so we should have just one. When we talk about rules we are generally discussing tournament play because the casual golfer is knowingly or unknowingly not playing by the rules all the time so why would he or she need a new set they wouldn't follow?

[Rainmaker]

  On 3/2/2017 at 5:03 PM, Shooting29 said:

When we talk about rules we are generally discussing tournament play because the casual golfer is knowingly or unknowingly not playing by the rules all the time so why would he or she need a new set they wouldn't follow?

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That's so true . .I don't think I ever played with anybody who followed all the rules . .except maybe accidentally.  I even knew a couple guys where I worked who claimed to be 8-10 handicaps - and they cheated every single time I ever played with them.  The point being that I think certain kinds and amounts of cheating are just accepted in some circles of players . .so it's like already having multiple sets of rules.