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Lexi Thompson's 4 Stroke Penalty at the ANA


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Then why put the Rules Officials out there.  Oh, there to help the players as some have stated.  Then the players don't even know the rules so how can they be penalized?  What some have claimed.  Goes back to the rules officials and rule enforcement.  Argue all you want.

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I've kept up with this thread all day. Read all 20 pages, I can safely say there are two camps and both are represented by this gif

After sleeping on this issue, and subsequently removing some emotion from the analysis, I now think it was handled fairly and nothing should change. In fact, I find myself doubting a bit whether or no

It wasn't a millimeter. Lexi should put her ball back in the same place. It's a pretty simple rule… Yep. Simple rule, really, and she should be glad it's 2017 and she won't be DQed.

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6 minutes ago, Hatchman said:

Then why put the Rules Officials out there.  Oh, there to help the players as some have stated.  Then the players don't even know the rules so how can they be penalized?  What some have claimed.  Goes back to the rules officials and rule enforcement.  Argue all you want.

Are you suggesting they should not be penalized for breaking a rule?

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15 minutes ago, TN94z said:

But should the best golfer of the tournament be allowed to obtain that title having obviously broken a RoG?

Yes.  Unless you want to dq any golfer breaking any rule ever.

In every sport after the game is over they look at replays and there's things found rules broken-no way to make it perfect.  At some point the game is over.

When the tour accepts that players scorecard that days 'game' should be over for that player.  It's the only solution to this retroactive penalty call nonsense.

How much did Lexi gain by a mismark on a tap in?

The past is the past.

Edited by Jack Watson
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17 minutes ago, iacas said:

I read it. I get the reply.

Without any editing:

Yes, that seems reasonable. Player B violated two rules. Players A and C only violated one.

You seem to be putting too much importance on "knowing" yet the Rules say the player is responsible for playing the game under the rules. All the players didn't, but B unfortunately broke two rules. A was fortunate in having it brought to her attention, and C was likewise fortunate because she'd have faced being DQed had it been discovered later.

To you it might seem reasonable, but it's not directed at you.  It's directed at the guy who implied immediately before that that the player who doesn't call her own penalty deserves 4 strokes over somebody who doesn't call their own penalty.

Let's just drop it now.

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2 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Yes.  

In every sport after the game is over they look at replays and there's things found rules broken-no way to make it perfect.  At some point the game is over.

When the tour accepts that players scorecard that days 'game' should be over for that player.  It's the only solution to this retroactive penalty call nonsense.

How much did Lexi gain by a mismark on a tap in?

The past is the past.

Except every other sport, the players are actively trying to get away with whatever they can.  In golf, it falls on the player to call the infraction on themself.  That is why the "other sport" analogy does not work.

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If they broke the rules there is a penalty.  The Rules Officials help enforce, I thought.  Apparently they are there to assist players based on comments I've interpreted.  Something doesn't ring true to me however.  Just my opinion.  

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Yes.  

In every sport after the game is over they look at replays and there's things found rules broken-no way to make it perfect.  At some point the game is over.

When the tour accepts that players scorecard that days 'game' should be over for that player.  It's the only solution to this retroactive penalty call nonsense.

How much did Lexi gain by a mismark on a tap in?

Argue about changing the rules, by all means. But that it's correct to win by breaking the rules? Daft. They call that 'football' in the UK - and I'd argue it's a game, not a sport.

 

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5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Yes.  

In every sport after the game is over they look at replays and there's things found rules broken-no way to make it perfect.  At some point the game is over.

When the tour accepts that players scorecard that days 'game' should be over for that player.  It's the only solution to this retroactive penalty call nonsense.

How much did Lexi gain by a mismark on a tap in?

There is no way to know how much she gained. What if by moving her ball that amount, bypassed a spike mark that we couldn't see that would have knocked the ball off line enough to miss the putt??  I'm just saying, if a player has been determined to be the best player of the tournament, but broke a rule along the way while other players did not, then said player shouldn't be determined to be the best. I'm not saying Lexi cheated or anything like that, but a rule was obviously broken. I can remember MMA fights where the fight was over, one guy left with a win and one guy left with a loss....3 judges made that decision. But after reviewing the fights and seeing certain things that happened...the decision was overturned to a no contest. it happens. It's very unfortunate, but it happens.

Edited by TN94z
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So it's expected you call it.  But,  you were not aware you did it so how could you call it?

But by then retroactively calling it on you for two penalties they also give you another 2 penalties since you should have known?

Does this make sense to anyone?

 

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Just now, Jack Watson said:

So it's expected you call it.  But,  you were not aware you did it so how could you call it?

But by then retroactively calling it on you for two penalties they also give you another 2 penalties since you should have known?

Does this make sense to anyone?

We can always go back to the way it used to be.  Sign a wrong scorecard, because of a rules infraction not noticed at the time, or for any other reason, and you get DQed.  If that rule was still in effect, Lexi would have been asked to leave the course in mid-round.  Under the current rules, at least she had a chance.

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2 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

So it's expected you call it.  But,  you were not aware you did it so how could you call it?

But by then retroactively calling it on you for two penalties they also give you another 2 penalties since you should have known?

Does this make sense to anyone?

 

Not being aware is the issue. It was very obvious from the replay that the ball was in a different spot. That is something that falls on her to know. I just went over making sure you mark your ball correctly and put it back in the correct spot with my 15 year old.

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23 minutes ago, b101 said:

The chances are that other players do similar things, to be honest, you probably need one of these every once in a while to ensure that they don't. 

Agreed. 4 strokes is a big risk to take when you could just play by the rules and not move your ball to a different location. It seems so harsh but the violation was of a fundamental rule and was blatant. It's not hard to put the ball back in the same spot. To be honest, LT looks all the more stupid for saying it was an accident. Watching it back, there's no point where she pauses to clean the ball or anything. She simply moved it to a different location.

This fire was started by Lexi Thomson.

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1 minute ago, Jack Watson said:

So it's expected you call it.  But,  you were not aware you did it so how could you call it?

But by then retroactively calling it on you for two penalties they also give you another 2 penalties since you should have known?

Rule 6-6d specifically addresses it.

Quote

d. Wrong Score for Hole
The competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his score card. If he returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken, he is disqualified. If he returns a score for any hole higher than actually taken, the score as returned stands.

Exception: If a competitor returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken due to failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before returning his score card, he did not know he had incurred, he is not disqualified. In such circumstances, the competitor incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and an additional penalty of two strokes for each hole at which the competitor has committed a breach of Rule 6-6d. This Exception does not apply when the applicable penalty is disqualification from the competition.

The 2-stroke penalty is specifically for a penalty the competitor was not aware of previously.

Otherwise, the penalty would be DQ.

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Iacas, this is exactly what's wrong with the golf rules as they are and as they are enforced.  If you had quoted me completely  "So we have officials out there.  It's laughable we say they are there in case the players have questions etc.  They are there to enforce the rules."  Is this the first time you've seen a definition that doesn't define what actually happens?  It is laughable.

  In your long post, full of pointless point by points reminds me of the pompous USGA officials trying to pat themselves on the back for "protecting the game".

Time to update the rules.  Pure and simple.  

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

 

But define "spectators," first, and then ask yourself if you'd be comfortable with someone winning a tournament despite a rules infraction that just happened to be seen by millions watching TV, but not live and in person by the two or three people who might have been able to see it in person and live? (1. the player, 2. the cameraman, 3. the caddie or maybe a walking reporter).

Even the announcers are watching it on a TV screen.

The truth was shown and Lexi, having failed in her responsibility to know and follow the Rules of Golf, was penalized.

 

Spectators = Anyone other than a player or an official. 

Yes, I would be ok with someone winning if there was an  infraction of sorts due to an error (hopefully unwillingly). I believe it happens already. I don't actually think all infractions are penalized in professional tournament. The game of Golf, it is still a game played by people, not only players make mistakes, but also officials. It is not the end of Golf nor it would be a dishonorable game...would it?

You can choose to believe Lexi was cheating, that doesn't change the my argument.  

I am not arguing about the TRUTH...enough already.. I get it..she cheated/ screwed up or what ever, she got what she deserved. 

Let spectators out of calling infractions..you want to call infractions? then go apply to become an official, oh right...they don't do that..they are assistants.....see the problem? 

USGA places the responsibility on the player alone, yet they accept ANYBODY to call the infraction.

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9 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

I'm not saying she didn't violate a rule, but do you really think she cheated?  I'll be honest...I'm looking at the green, and I don't see any spike marks between her ball and the hole:

 

She was leading the tournament and knew all eyes and cameras would be on her.  Who would risk doing something intentional? 

She marked her ball and picked it up and immediately started hovering it around a LONG way from her marker. She even looked as if she was thinking about putting it even further away. I think they forget about cameras sometimes. Simply put, if you had three coins or balls forming a line 2 feet long and you removed one of them and then were asked to replace them in the same line, even putting one half an inch to the side is clearly incorrect. This is what she did and she got busted. I think she (and others) have learnt a valuable lesson.

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so I have read 12 pages of comments on this forum and many more some other places...what I can conclude is golf is still run by a few elites who refuse to listen to the masses...because of their own smugness to the game.

They could have fixed this rule 2, 5 10 years ago, they could assign officials like every other sport or they could like every other governing body use their heads and police the game for the good of the game...it is a sad day for golf. Not because of this rule but because of the lack of leadership and the failure of the sport to itself.

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2 minutes ago, Hategolf said:

USGA places the responsibility on the player alone, yet they accept ANYBODY to call the infraction.

The problem is not that other golfers aren't unwillingly doing things.  The problem is that someone saw this happen and reported it, so the officials HAD to take it into consideration and once they looked at it, it was a broken rule. So if they hadn't done anything at all, and a video started circulating and people found out the officials knew and did nothing, then the integrity of the rules take a hit...to me anyway. Because then you have to come up with how far can you bend the rules without getting penalized.

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Note: This thread is 934 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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