2017 U.S. Open Discussion Topic

[Wally Fairway]

3 hours ago, Apoc81 said:

I want to play this course as it is so badly.

I'm pretty sure many of us could play badly on this course

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, zipazoid said:

Well, they'd be pretty stupid to publicly state this displeasure, no? So, yes, I am sure that they're not publicly giving any inference of displeasure.

They could say something without voicing actual displeasure. Something like "well, we didn't get the conditions yesterday, and we think we'll see the scoring come back to par here a bit over the weekend…". You can express "displeasure" without outright saying "man, we're displeased."

8 minutes ago, zipazoid said:

So yeah. I keep "saying that" since I have evidence of it. Remember the 1998 18th hole pin position? I know, not Mike Davis. But it's still the USGA.

It's 20 years ago and not Mike Davis, right, so… zoinks. I don't really care. If you're going back that far, just keep going back to the Massacre at Winged Foot…?

Ha, I was joking and hadn't read ahead, but you did do that! Ha. That's not this current USGA administration. It's generations ago, man. People - and even the USGA - change.

8 minutes ago, zipazoid said:

Maybe they've changed their ways, but I haven't really seen evidence of it.

I have. Including everything they're saying, the setup this year and last year and the year before that…

8 minutes ago, zipazoid said:

But they're still amateurs, and sometimes it shows.

Amateur golfers, not amateurs at setting up a world-class tournament. What kind of comment is that???

8 minutes ago, zipazoid said:

The R&A just lets their courses do the weeding out, but the USGA seems to think they have to insert themselves at times.

I don't agree. I don't see what you see, or hear what you're (not) hearing.

A ton of players were under par yesterday. They didn't do much to change the setup today, and a ton of players are still under par.

[Hardspoon]

The amount of angst about John Rahm's temper is stupid.  Who gives a s--t?

 

[Chilli Dipper]

14 minutes ago, zipazoid said:

Well, they'd be pretty stupid to publicly state this displeasure, no? So, yes, I am sure that they're not publicly giving any inference of displeasure. 

So yeah. I keep "saying that" since I have evidence of it. Remember the 1998 18th hole pin position? I know, not Mike Davis. But it's still the USGA. They have a history of going medieval every now & then just because they can. 1974 Winged Foot was ridiculous & a direct response to Johnny Miller shooting 63 the year before.

Maybe they've changed their ways, but I haven't really seen evidence of it, and I don't consider the list of winners under Davis as some kind of vindication of their efforts. Hey, it's their tournament & they can run it however they see fit. But they're still amateurs, and sometimes it shows. The R&A just lets their courses do the weeding out, but the USGA seems to think they have to insert themselves at times.

 

I have never heard or read anything about Mike Davis that suggests that he's particularly concerned with protecting par. In fact, when he became the USGA's competition director in the early-mid '00s, the reporting made much to do with how he differed from his predecessors in regard to course setup philosophy.

Protecting par used to be important to the U.S. Open, at least implicitly, and maybe explicitly. As a result, the national championship came to favor straight drivers who were long enough, who employed very conservative course management. That's why there were no European champions for 40 years, even as Europeans were dominating the sport, while Andy North and Lee Janzen each won twice.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Chilli Dipper

[zipazoid]

@iacasI'm only responding since you asked me a couple things directly. Essentially, we just have to agree to disagree.

If I understand correctly, you're basically saying that since they haven't done it recently it means they've changed their way. As I said, maybe they have. But that doesn't mean they won't, and they DO have a history of doing it...whether it was 20 or more years ago...they've done it. If you don't care that's fine...but it doesn't mean it didn't happen...it just happened not within the timeframe you consider relevant.

And yes, they're amateurs. Running a world class event? Ask Dustin Johnson about that penalty from last year (recent history!) - letting the leader of the tournament having to wonder whether he led by one or two...or at all? Trying to win the Open with that hanging over him? What's world-class about that?

Again. I am only replying, as I said, because you directly asked me questions. I answered them. Agree to disagree.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, zipazoid said:

@iacasI'm only responding since you asked me a couple things directly. Essentially, we just have to agree to disagree.

If I understand correctly, you're basically saying that since they haven't done it recently it means they've changed their way. As I said, maybe they have. But that doesn't mean they won't, and they DO have a history of doing it...whether it was 20 or more years ago...they've done it. If you don't care that's fine...but it doesn't mean it didn't happen...it just happened not within the timeframe you consider relevant.

Why you care about what the previous guy did 20 (or 43!!!!!) years ago is beyond me. I think there's ample evidence they've changed.

Call that what you will. I'm just sharing my opinion, and you yours. All good here.

5 minutes ago, zipazoid said:

Running a world class event? Ask Dustin Johnson about that penalty from last year (recent history!) - letting the leader of the tournament having to wonder whether he led by one or two...or at all? Trying to win the Open with that hanging over him? What's world-class about that?

Oh brother. You weren't here for that whole discussion. They run a world class event. They run a major. It's exceedingly well run.

That doesn't mean it's not flawless. (If you look back at the topics from last year, you'll find my only real problem with that whole thing is that DJ is stupid and doesn't know the rules, and the walking official with him barely asked him any questions to determine what had actually happened. THAT was the mistake.)

But hey, if you want to hate on the USGA, don't let reason, logic, or nearly 20 years of history stop you, my man!

[nevets88]

So that's where the hay goes. 

 

[saevel25]

11 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

So that's where the hay goes. 

Good video! That's a heck of a deal for Erin Hills. 

[Buckeyebowman]

Cool vid! There's a local course, The Links at Firestone Farms, that grows soybeans and hay on the course!

And as far as the scoring goes, I find it interesting that the leaders are sitting exactly where the leader was sitting yesterday! Nobody who went low yesterday did anything today. They all came out of the pack.

And quite a few heavy hitters slammed the trunk and went home this evening.

Now, with the weekend and Open pressure on them, we'll see what the players do. It's kind of a shame there's more rain in the forecast. The greens were finally starting to dry out and get interesting. But, there could be high winds on Sunday, which could result in a show!

Edited June 17, 2017 by Buckeyebowman

[colin007]

Anyone see that Champ kid who averaged 349.xx yards/drive for the first two days? JFC....

[onthehunt526]

1 hour ago, colin007 said:

Anyone see that Champ kid who averaged 349.xx yards/drive for the first two days? JFC....

Cameron Champ bombs it, and I mean bombs it. He makes you and I look short Colin... 

I'd like to see the kid contend on the weekend, I know it won't happen because amateurs don't win U.S. Opens.(Though Jack came pretty damn close in '60).

Does anyone know if an amateur finishes the U.S. Open in the top-10 and ties, if they turn professional between the end of said Open and the next Open, are they still exempt from qualifying the next year?

[onthehunt526]

I almost forgot. Double digits under par will not win this U.S. Open. They don't have to trick it out to that not to happen. (Someone who gets a white hot putter might win at 10 under). I think some guy currently mid-pack might shoot 142 or 143 and win it. 

Any one who made the 36 hole cut, can still win. +1 ties the lowest cut in relation to par since at least 1946. (Modern era)... The other +1 cut was in 1990 not very far away at Medinah. The last time we had a +1 cut, we went 91 holes.

Somehow, I can see an 18-hole playoff with about 6 guys on Monday. All 68 players are only 8 shots apart. And more than half are within 5. This is going to be fun. Going into Sunday, you could be only 4 back of the lead, and going off 2 hours ahead of the final group. (As Hale Irwin did in 1990), and making a playoff.

[cutshot878]

6 hours ago, colin007 said:

Anyone see that Champ kid who averaged 349.xx yards/drive for the first two days? JFC....

350 yard drives. 200 yard 9 iron shots. The modern game. Love it or hate it. Perhaps restrict the loft on the driver to 15 degrees. A 3 wood can only go so far, maybe 320 max. Time to reign the ridiculousness in a little bit. Or not. 

[boogielicious]

8 hours ago, nevets88 said:

So that's where the hay goes. 

 

You always find the most interesting videos Steve!

24 minutes ago, cutshot878 said:

350 yard drives. 200 yard 9 iron shots. The modern game. Love it or hate it. Perhaps restrict the loft on the driver to 15 degrees. A 3 wood can only go so far, maybe 320 max. Time to reign the ridiculousness in a little bit. Or not. 

Why restrict phenomenal athletes? I'm being serious. That is what they are. It's not really the equipment either. The COR is fixed on the clubs and balls have limits. We keep acting like it's the equipment, but we really don't get longer. 

These guys are just better athletes than the players from years before. They optimize their swing to produce max power and more efficient launch conditions. I enjoy the spectacle of DJ overshooting a 650 yard Par 5 in two shots. I can't do it and never could. But I also can't dunk, can't run a 4 minute mile, can't do a back handspring and I'm cool with watching those athletes.

We wouldn't do that in any other sport.

[zipazoid]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

Why restrict phenomenal athletes? I'm being serious. That is what they are. It's not really the equipment either. The COR is fixed on the clubs and balls have limits. We keep acting like it's the equipment, but we really don't get longer. 

These guys are just better athletes than the players from years before. They optimize their swing to produce max power and more efficient launch conditions. I enjoy the spectacle of DJ overshooting a 650 yard Par 5 in two shots. I can't do it and never could. But I also can't dunk, can't run a 4 minute mile, can't do a back handspring and I'm cool with watching those athletes.

We wouldn't do that in any other sport.

That's why I don't think 515-yard par 4s scare these guys. They're hitting 9-irons into them anyway. I really don't think length bothers them. Make it 8,000 yards, doesn't matter.

I've read about courses, like Augusta for example, where they try to lengthen the hole so that today's pros, generally speaking, have to hit the same iron into the hole that Hogan & Snead did. So, if back in their day a 420-yard par 4 was driver 6-iron, they want today's pros hitting a 6-iron as well. Well hell...that's a 550-yard hole to today's pros!

They need more than length to get their attention. You need length & a threat - water on one side, trees, a canting fairway or whatever. 

That's how good they've become.

[colin007]

I think I'm pulling for Koepka. I like the golfers that look like natural athletes.

[zipazoid]

2 minutes ago, colin007 said:

I think I'm pulling for Koepka. I like the golfers that look like natural athletes.

My pick is Matsuyama. He's been knocking on the door a lot lately.

[nevets88]

So when Na and Westwood and everyone was saying their bit about the fescue, they were literally "making hay". Rimshot. 

I'll walk myself out. ?