Anonymous pro claims there's a known cheater on tour.

[Valleygolfer]

5 minutes ago, Shorty said:

But if someone reads the accusation and not the retraction (or whatever else follows), is it fair? 

I don't know that anything is fair in this vague situation. We all would like a name and unfortunately the speculation drags many innocent people into the mix of one guilty person (at the one person this guy is speaking of). It really is unfair for him to mention it at all. I was just looking to see who fit the "bill".

[Vinsk]

The way Nicklaus explained how they handled a situation seems more likely a way to handle it. Player to player. It happens in my profession too. If another physician is doing or has done something questionable, we don't go immediately to the Board. We address the physician directly. If the behavior continues, then it's time for the Board. If no player has approached this 'known cheater' then they're just a bunch of Willy Nillies themselves.

[Quadhole]

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

The way Nicklaus explained how they handled a situation seems more likely a way to handle it. Player to player. It happens in my profession too. If another physician is doing or has done something questionable, we don't go immediately to the Board. We address the physician directly. If the behavior continues, then it's time for the Board. If no player has approached this 'known cheater' then they're just a bunch of Willy Nillies themselves.

Yikes

[Hardspoon]

I finally got around to reading the article. I would bet money this story is greatly exaggerated, if not completely fabricated.

There are just enough "hints" to make people want to speculate, but they are broad enough to not give away an identity.

Also...it never explicitly says this cheater is on the PGA Tour (as long as there are players who have played the Masters but are now on the web.com).

I may be wrong, but my bullshit detector went off big-time.

[zipazoid]

11 hours ago, Vinsk said:

The way Nicklaus explained how they handled a situation seems more likely a way to handle it. Player to player. It happens in my profession too. If another physician is doing or has done something questionable, we don't go immediately to the Board. We address the physician directly. If the behavior continues, then it's time for the Board. If no player has approached this 'known cheater' then they're just a bunch of Willy Nillies themselves.

So agree. Now, we don't know if the cheater has been directly confronted, and if I were to guess, I would say yes. The perception of the tour players is, as a whole, they're a pretty honorable bunch. Not to mention that the cheater is basically stealing money out of other player's pockets. 

Apparently at least one pro decided to take his case (anonymously) public. But to state anonymously about an not-named player cheating is, well, kinda weak - an unnamed guy is accusing an unnamed other guy of cheating.

[StefanUrkel]

How can anyone tell if someone is cheating on a ball mark anyways?  Unless they are obvious, does Mickelson have super special eyes?  

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Quadhole said:

Yikes

Easy killer........I'm not talking  about gross malpractice ....simple things...in relation to moving ones ball an inch off mark.

[Shorty]

3 hours ago, StefanUrkel said:

How can anyone tell if someone is cheating on a ball mark anyways?  Unless they are obvious, does Mickelson have super special eyes?  

You stand within 20 feet of where they are. You watch them mark and you watch how they replace their ball. Normal eyesight is sufficient.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Shorty said:

You stand within 20 feet of where they are. You watch them mark and you watch how they replace their ball. Normal eyesight is sufficient.

Yup.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 6/9/2017 at 8:52 PM, Shorty said:

As mentioned before, you see the reaction in the face of clear evidence with Lexi T. That's why they don't do it.

Mehh, not buying it! They don't call fouls that are clearly committed because because the player will be sad?! Come on now! And let's not forget that she fell victim to her own carelessness, but the "HD rules", which supposedly have been dealt with.

22 hours ago, Vinsk said:

The way Nicklaus explained how they handled a situation seems more likely a way to handle it. Player to player. It happens in my profession too. If another physician is doing or has done something questionable, we don't go immediately to the Board. We address the physician directly. If the behavior continues, then it's time for the Board. If no player has approached this 'known cheater' then they're just a bunch of Willy Nillies themselves.

Good point. And I don't know how much of this goes on anymore, considering the PC world we now live in.

I read an interview with Payne Stewart where he talked about playing on the Ryder Cup team that played at Jack's home course, Muirfield, in Dublin, Ohio, with Jack as the captain.

They lost that Ryder Cup and Jack was as mad as a hornet! Jack buttonholed Stewart in the locker room and read him the riot act. No one else around. To the best of my recollection Jack said, "You know what Payne? I just don't get you! You have talent galore, and you cash a lot of checks and make a lot of money. But, you should be winning! You should win championships! Majors! And I don't understand why you don't!"

Stewart said that's what lit the fire under him to finally win that US Open.

[Shorty]

14 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Mehh, not buying it! They don't call fouls that are clearly committed because because the player will be sad?! Come on now! And let's not forget that she fell victim to her own carelessness, but the "HD rules", which supposedly have been dealt with.

 

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. By "in the face of clear evidence" I was talking about clear evidence, not a sad look on the face of a cheat when called out. I said "in the face of clear evidence" not "on the face of Lexi Thomson". Not an insubstantial difference.....

I am saying that even when cheating is obvious, lots of people refuse to acknowledge it. There are many on this site, for example, who refuse to acknowledge LT ad a cheat, claiming it was an accident or impossible to judge definitively.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Shorty

[caniac6]

14 hours ago, Shorty said:

You stand within 20 feet of where they are. You watch them mark and you watch how they replace their ball. Normal eyesight is sufficient.

Why wouldn't someone just say you might want to check you ball before you pick up your coin? It seems kind of gutless to write an article complaining about cheating, and not call out the cheater when he cheats.

[Valleygolfer]

7 hours ago, Shorty said:

I am saying that even when cheating is obvious, lots of people refuse to acknowledge it. .

This. Unless it's more than one person or a committee, the accused will deny it and attack the accuser.  Unless the accuser has video evidence, the accused, if he is true cheat, will undermine you to others to try to discredit you. A lot of people don't like dealing with conflict with others. I'm not worried about @Shortybeing that way...

[Shorty]

59 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

Why wouldn't someone just say you might want to check you ball before you pick up your coin? It seems kind of gutless to write an article complaining about cheating, and not call out the cheater when he cheats.

I agree. I have done it twice and both times it ruined the game for me.

On the first occasion it was in a match I thought I was going to win so I didn't let it bother me until the match tightened up. I asked him to replace the ball properly and his father (caddying) felt it was time to start WW3.

The second time It was so obvious on each of the first two holes I almost fell over. It was the old nudge the ball 2 inches forward as you throw the marker 6 inches forward and then "replace" the ball 2 inches in front of the ball trick. On the third hole I blurted out "Geez, you might want to replace the ball properly!" He did, but the rest of the game was played in a very uncomfortable silence.

That's why.

Most people prefer to avoid conflict and because golf reveals character, these scumbag cheats don't like being called out because they are deficient in character and won't own their actions. Again - look at Lexi "Is this a joke? Are you kidding me" ( followed  by the ubiquitious, redundant and idiotic) "right now?" She didn't own it and looked to blame others.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Shorty

[iacas]

10 hours ago, Shorty said:

I am saying that even when cheating is obvious, lots of people refuse to acknowledge it. There are many on this site, for example, who refuse to acknowledge LT ad a cheat, claiming it was an accident or impossible to judge definitively.

I disagree that the LT thing was an "obvious" example of "cheating."

She breached the rules, and that was obvious, but "cheating" carries with it the intent, and I don't see enough "intent" to call it cheating, let alone "obvious" intent.

I've said I'm maybe 45/55 or so on that, and I'm close to saying she likely cheated, but she moved the ball sideways 4/5" or so, not two inches closer or something, and I didn't see a spike mark or something she'd want to avoid. She does rotate her ball often so that "dot" is facing her so she can focus on it. I'm still leaning toward "brain fart."

[Yukari]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

I disagree that the LT thing was an "obvious" example of "cheating."

She breached the rules, and that was obvious, but "cheating" carries with it the intent, and I don't see enough "intent" to call it cheating, let alone "obvious" intent.

I've said I'm maybe 45/55 or so on that, and I'm close to saying she likely cheated, but she moved the ball sideways 4/5" or so, not two inches closer or something, and I didn't see a spike mark or something she'd want to avoid. She does rotate her ball often so that "dot" is facing her so she can focus on it. I'm still leaning toward "brain fart."

I tend to agree with this (or on her simple lackadaisical attitude towards ball marking).  But after seeing her do the same in other tournament (as someone has posted in that thread), I am not sure what to think about LT's ball marking.

But I still think she's just careless.

It is very difficult to call someone a cheat without knowing whether that person is aware they are breaking the rule.

As for the anonymous pro's assertion, I have no doubt there is cheating going on PGA.  These players are not different from the rest of the society.  A certain percentage of a group of people will alway try to gain as much advantage as possible including cheating.

As to who actually is the culprit, I don't think it is just one person (as eluded to by PM).  Most likely, it will not be a "super star", if you will.  They have way too much to lose and have no reason to cheat as their skill can back up their status. 

[Buckeyebowman]

22 hours ago, Shorty said:

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. By "in the face of clear evidence" I was talking about clear evidence, not a sad look on the face of a cheat when called out. I said "in the face of clear evidence" not "on the face of Lexi Thomson". Not an insubstantial difference.....

I am saying that even when cheating is obvious, lots of people refuse to acknowledge it. There are many on this site, for example, who refuse to acknowledge LT ad a cheat, claiming it was an accident or impossible to judge definitively.

Sorry, I misunderstood your reply. I tried to puzzle out the syntax, but this has made it clear. You meant the reaction of golf fans, and particularly LT fans, in the face of clear evidence. And the evidence was pretty clear, even though it was HD evidence. And I liked your post about fellow competitors simply paying attention to what is going on, and making an effort to see that everything is on the up and up. That should make the HD part of it immaterial. 

And you do have a point in your second paragraph that I quoted above. I've never been anywhere near a pro level golfer. But, I've been playing for 50 years and I know how to mark my ball, and I know how to replace it! I cannot understand a pro being careless in either effort.

[StefanUrkel]

Word on the street is it is Billy Mayfair