Groove Sharpener

[billchao]

1 minute ago, Phil McGleno said:

They can actually-these are some famous pictures - but the master club guy said they measure depth from the high point of the clubface not on a micro level where the center of the face is dented in a little.

That club would be measured for depth at the high toe area.-Otherwise the clubface is not flat which violates a different rule.

But the whole face is caved in! Ok, just in some parts. 

The grooves are basically non-existent at some points, but what happens when you measure their depth from the high point of the face? Yes they're effectively shallower as grooves because their walls are gone, but I'm having a hard time picturing a way for the club to wear so that the groove depth as measured from the correct point is somehow reduced because that would mean material is somehow raised up from the bottom of the groove.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of those "grooves" inside that crater are in fact deeper the they originally were.

[saevel25]

15 minutes ago, billchao said:

It is if the club was manufactured at the legal limit. Removing any material at that point makes the club illegal.

^This

That is why the face needs to be milled to make sure the grooves can be made to USGA specifications. 

As others have said, if you don't care about the legality of it then go ahead. 

Just now, Shooting29 said:

I think @TropicalSandTrap should change his avatar to 

He's not trolling. He is being obstinate. 

[iacas]

I'm considering just locking this one. It's gone nowhere.

21 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

As others have said, if you don't care about the legality of it then go ahead. 

Yep.

But don't call others out for "lack of knowledge of the rules" (or whatever you're doing @TropicalSandTrap). Just not chill.

[Buckeyebowman]

I've been known to run a diamond encrusted fine bit in a Dremel tool down the grooves of my irons! Whether it did me any good or not, I can't really say.

[rehmwa]

I've never used one.  From the 'how to use' videos I've seen, they appear to just be expensive groove cleaning tools more than anything.  IMHO

As for removal vs re-shaping:  Even vigorous and over frequent cleaning with a wire brush, though, can remove material over time.  Some wedges the material is pretty soft - (when the naked eye can see the wear over time then it's soft enough.  Thus a harder tool will mill away material).

If the grinding profile of the tool is shaped to conform, I'm not quite sure how it would not then fit loosely in a 'worn' groove at the surface - and thus the only real result would be a deeper dig at the base of the groove, and maybe the surface radius being affected slightly with less of the conforming radii (the original, of course, being worn away - the exception being if the face is milled down and the grooves essentially replaced in whole - in other words, to get the true original shape, you'd have to mill the face and redo the entire groove with the new available depth you've provided yourself from the facemill.  No ad for a goove tool ever starts with milling the face first.)

To answer the OP's real question - unfortunately, I'm not getting a good feeling that anyone here has experience with cleaners, and those that do will be unlikely to post at this point.  The only option is to buy one and try it - and best of luck.  And take seriously the advice of the group if planning to compete at any serious level - with this crowd, the delivery is 'direct', but the intentions are honest and true feedback.  If you are not competing, it doesn't matter one bit, have fun.

For me?  I just wet my club and clean it with a brush quite often.  And I try to keep them dry and clean to avoid subtle and ongoing corrosion.  With all that's going on here (picture), I suspect even trying to refurbish my club face in the future is a futile effort beyond what I'm already doing.

It's just golf - flat face, round ball....how hard can it possibly be?

Edited July 14, 2017 by rehmwa

[boogielicious]

15 hours ago, jamo said:

I've been trying to visualize what a groove sharpener could possibly even do, so I grabbed an old lob wedge that I used for a few years. All of the grooves near the top of the club are virtually unused (sketch on the left), but the ones near the sole are quite worn. But the way they're worn is that the edges have smoothed out, like the sketch second from the left. 

There's no way to correct for that with a sharpener tool. The material in the top corner has deformed, you're not going to be able mold it back into that previous shape. The only thing you could do is cut or deform the material in the bottom of the grooves, widening the entire groove (third picture from the left), which, yes, would likely make the grooves illegal, since they're probably already at the legal limit. And if you're not doing that, and thus keeping it legal, you're not actually doing anything to improve the grooves. 

What the grooves will never look like is the picture on the right. This is the only case a sharpener could actually correct legally. But grooves can't and won't cave in like that.

Alternatively, if you happen to have a welding torch and some spare steel handy, you could clad over the entire face of your wedges and cut new grooves yourself. 

No one's saying you need to buy new wedges twice a month, or that you should be shot for using wedges that may be nonconforming. We're just trying to set the facts straight. 

I was hoping for at least a SolidWorks drawing in 3D!

I bought the tool a long time ago, because I'm a tool nerd. It wasn't very effective and as @jamo pointed out, there is no way to bring the groove back to new state. I think club re-finishers use it, but they are adding chrome back to the face.

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

I was hoping for at least a SolidWorks drawing in 3D!

I bought the tool a long time ago, because I'm a tool nerd. It wasn't very effective and as @jamo pointed out, there is no way to bring the groove back to new state. I think club re-finishers use it, but they are adding chrome back to the face.

I took a few minutes to draw this up (Civil 3D )

I assumed that the tool would not widen or deepen the groove such that it would violate the USGA Rules. The primary issue becomes that USGA has regulations governing the cross-section area of the groove based on the spacing of the grooves. The area increases by 33%. I highly doubt that the new sharpened grooves would adhere to USGA Regulations. Being that the club manufacturers would want to maximize the amount of groove volume on the clubface to catch as much debris as possible on a shot.

 

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

I took a few minutes to draw this up (Civil 3D )

I assumed that the tool would not widen or deepen the groove such that it would violate the USGA Rules. The primary issue becomes that USGA has regulations governing the cross-section area of the groove based on the spacing of the grooves. The area increases by 33%. I highly doubt that the new sharpened grooves would adhere to USGA Regulations. Being that the club manufacturers would want to maximize the amount of groove volume on the clubface to catch as much debris as possible on a shot.

 

We're such engineering nerds, me included! Nice job! I do have Solidworks on my work computer.

[TropicalSandTrap]

So I got one and am using it on wedges I don't use. I'm not sure I like it  

1. For the most part just using it to clean grooves it is nice. But that's without using it as a decide to actually sharpen anything. And it isn't really better than the groove tool pencil looking thing  

2. When I apply pressure to it to make actually remove material I don't think I like what it does to the club.

[jamo]

FWIW, the best thing I've found to clean grooves is one of those eyeglasses flathead screwdrivers you can get at the front counter at drug stores. 

[CR McDivot]

I carry a wet towel and a dry towel with which I clean clubs after each shot. Several times a season, when I do a thorough club and grip cleaning, I use a loose fitting center punch type instrument to get debris out of the grooves - typically there is not much to remove.

My Dad used usually a plain old wooden tee and it seemed to do nearly as well.

Neither method will remove metal, but will clear the grooves of debris.

Good enough for me.