The Golf Ball "Problem": PGA Tour Players Hitting it Far is a Problem for All of Golf?

[lastings]

5 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

I'd like a box of those please.....I'll trade some nearly new ones for them (you can 4 in the left side woods on #8 at White Eagle)

HA!

while you're there, you can grab another 5 balls off of #14.

 

[phillyk]

20 minutes ago, joro said:

Phillyk, that is exactly my point, why should the kid with all the shots be considered not in because he is only a 250 hitter.     Bring the course, or Ball, or Driver back so his talent can be used.   It is like saying he is a great player but should not be there.     Shorten it and put some skill into the game other than just raw power.     This whole thing is getting out of hand and it is too bad.

So you're intentionally hurting players just so other players, who don't hit the same distance, can play them "fairly"? 

Maybe instead of rolling back, we should just start handing out handicap markers for holes for the pros, they'll like that.  Longest hole, the shortest hitter gets a 30yd handicap boost.  Then on short holes, they play straight up.  Welp, then they have the problem still of irons.  The longer guys will have wedges and the shorter will have 7 irons.  Or maybe those shorter hitters can go form their own tour for those that only hit the ball 250yds.

Edited October 16, 2017 by phillyk

[rehmwa]

5 minutes ago, lastings said:

HA!

while you're there, you can grab another 5 balls off of #14.

 

I probably got them on Saturday.  Course was empty.  I brought home about 80 balls.  Great morning before the rain came in.  Didn't see anyone until I played through from 18 to 1 (they started me on the back - as this course SHOULD be played.  #9 is too gorgeous to not be the finisher)

I actually played 14 clean.  Not a normal occurance, that approach shot is always a couple extra clubs to get there.

17 had a tail wind.....a TAIL WIND....can you believe it?  (Driver 8i vs normally driver hybrid for me....it was great)

(#8 was my bad, I should have taken the drop, but I chose to go the Tin Cup route - love that hole)

Edited October 16, 2017 by rehmwa

[phillyk]

Really, at the end of the round, it's about putting the ball in the hole in the least amount of strokes, not distance.  Guys like Jim Furyk prove that you can hit it 270 and still go out on these longer course and shoot lights out.  Yes, it's an advantage to hit the ball further, but it's something almost all of those guys can learn to do, if they feel so inclined.  From the 5'9" Rickie Fowlers to the 6'4" DJ's.  

[joro]

Well the issue is this, some like the length and some don't.     Me?, I am just a relic, but I was a really good player in my day.    I played in some PGA events and 2 Majors, so I know a little bit about it.    After that I became a Wood Maker for a Major Co.     I had the pleasure of making Woods for all the Great Players and was surprised at some of their specs.   But, those days are gone and at 78 and after a semi serious stroke, 2 hips, and Open Heart Surgery and just another hack.     But I still try and do okay.       That is me and it is not good, but I do know a bit about the game and the tools of the trade.

Now, to all you straight Ball hitting big hitters I say try Torrey from the Blacks and see how much fun it is.    Torrey is one thing, long, straight and because of the length it is a Bombers course, no real trouble just long a straight, perfect for the long Ball hitter, but if cannot hit it over 300 forget it.     Even the Blues are long and tough, so let me know how you did and how much unit was.   I used to play it twice a week for years when I was younger and it was a great course, not is an impossible course.      Long and straight, like a Freeway, does that make it a great course?    Enjoy

 

[rehmwa]

8 minutes ago, joro said:

 Me?, I am just a relic, but I was a really good player in my day.    I played in some PGA events and 2 Majors, so I know a little bit about it.    After that I became a Wood Maker for a Major Co.     I had the pleasure of making Woods for all the Great Players and was surprised at some of their specs.   But, those days are gone and at 78 and after a semi serious stroke, 2 hips, and Open Heart Surgery and just another hack.     But I still try and do okay.       That is me and it is not good, but I do know a bit about the game and the tools of the trade.

 

Hey Joro - WELCOME to the Sandtrap.  I bet you have some great stories and fun comments.  It's good discussion with a great crowd and the disagreements are fun too if you remember it's just a game we all like.

[GolfLug]

44 minutes ago, joro said:

Phillyk, that is exactly my point, why should the kid with all the shots be considered not in because he is only a 250 hitter.     Bring the course, or Ball, or Driver back so his talent can be used.   It is like saying he is a great player but should not be there.     Shorten it and put some skill into the game other than just raw power.     This whole thing is getting out of hand and it is too bad.

Sure there is a distance threshold to entry at the elite level but delta between shorter and longer hitter hasn't changed.

If anything the equipment is optimized (best energy transfer with most repeat-ability) helping EVERYBODY to make distance more of a differentiating skill than it ever was. i.e., it is more of a skill based meritocracy now than it ever was.   

1 hour ago, phillyk said:

Krank Formula 7 with a Pinnacle Gold golf ball.

Sweet...! I'll take two of each. Gotta be some 'formula'. "The trap 270 out ain't really in play for me bro.." 

And really juiced up about the 'no-consequence' part.. 

[inthehole]

23 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

A more varied product would be profitable.  The players would get into it IMO.  

Also,  @phillyk there have always been longer players,  and Nicklaus was much better with that club than anyone playing today.  It took much more skill ballstriking wise with vintage gear because the ball actually curved back then.  

I think that 1-3 retro events would add something different that is sorely needed in golf.  There's so many marketing angles possible on it. 

I think that would be fun to watch.   It's kind of like making the nascar guys race on 2 road courses every year.    Old gear tournaments with top tour pro's ... I'd drive to see that.

[joro]

43 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

Hey Joro - WELCOME to the Sandtrap.  I bet you have some great stories and fun comments.  It's good discussion with a great crowd and the disagreements are fun too if you remember it's just a game we all like.

Thank you for the kind words.   I have been  having a good time and don't mean to ruffle any Feathers.     I look forward to more.

[Jack Watson]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

@Jack Watson, admit it. You gave up on being a reasonable poster weeks ago and are just trolling us now.

If not, .

us?

3 hours ago, Pretzel said:

If it's not crap, by comparison, why are more players not using it today?

The new stuff makes golf easier.

3 hours ago, Pretzel said:

Using different equipment just for the sake of using old equipment is for nostalgic purposes only.

My point is that tour players have some pride.  They would want to win regardless.  I'd bet many on tour couldn't break 76 with vintage gear because their ballstriking is not good enough to use it.  Snedeker tried it and look what happened.  They should have enough pride to actually want to do this.  Let's see who can REALLY hit it.

3 hours ago, Pretzel said:

So you're saying it takes no skill and is boring to hit the ball very far? Tell me, what's your average driving distance and how often do you hit the fairway with these balls that are hard to even curve?

I've never been a long hitter relative to others even with old gear.  I grew up on Kenneth Smith custom hand me downs.  Now,  I have suffered some health probs but a couple years ago with mod gear at sea level I could carry in the 270 range or so maxing out on range.  On course less.  On a good day when I played a lot I had the left side blocked out with driver and it was on a string.  I haven't hit EVERY GIR but come within a couple before when playing often.  Now I am in the 240 255 range average with mod gear.  Older stuff will punish poor contact but still gets out there if hit correctly.  Good golfers should try a few rounds before dismissing the idea as crap.  There's a lot of different ballflight that no longer exists because of the gear and it takes variety out of the game.

4 hours ago, iacas said:

@Jack Watson, admit it. You gave up on being a reasonable poster weeks ago and are just trolling us now.

If not, .

Us?

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Jack Watson

[Jack Watson]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/watch-pga-tour-pros-try-to-play-with-really-old-golf-clubs

see?  They like it!

Snedeker...

https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/golf/pga/2007-07-12-oldclubs_N.htm

Edited October 17, 2017 by Jack Watson

[Vinsk]

21 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

No.

These guys are rich.  Playing with some real gear on a classic track would be a great test.  It would show which of them are true golfers and would turn into a pride thing.  Any of the great ballstrikers from the vintage era would be top ten every week hitting the mod gear.  It'd be like cheating for them.  That's why past greats all agree the mod gear is not the true test.  

@Jack Watson seriously? Come on. That’s total nonsense.

[saevel25]

58 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/watch-pga-tour-pros-try-to-play-with-really-old-golf-clubs

see?  They like it!

Snedeker...

https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/golf/pga/2007-07-12-oldclubs_N.htm

Yea, as a novelty to try. Not to make a living with or agree to go back to. Everybody gets nostalgic. That is why the old courses have that feel about them. 

 

[Jack Watson]

15 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Jack Watson seriously? Come on. That’s total nonsense.

Strong argument...

@saevel25

No one is saying to go backwards.  It's only that a retro event or two would be great for the tour.  We don't need more crap tourneys no one watches imo.

 

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, joro said:

Phillyk, that is exactly my point, why should the kid with all the shots be considered not in because he is only a 250 hitter.     Bring the course, or Ball, or Driver back so his talent can be used.   It is like saying he is a great player but should not be there.     Shorten it and put some skill into the game other than just raw power.     This whole thing is getting out of hand and it is too bad.

What do you think professional sports are all about? Whoever wants to play should be allowed? Tim Tebow should be in the NFL? Length is a skill. It’s certainly not the ONLY skill you need to play professional golf but if you’re long...better chance. Do you know how many kids dream of playing pro baseball? Football? Basketball? Not all make it. Why? It’s jist life my friend. Today with golf, be it pro or recreational, hitting it long will be an advantage. That’s just golf. You and @Jack Watson seem to think hitting the ball +300 is an easy task. Why? I get it with @Jack Watson, golf has beaten him and beaten him good. He has desperately attempted to convince himself that golf is just a nice walk and that it’s all very simple. And he believes that if he really wanted to he could break par regularly. But he’s acquiesced into the philosophical delusion that he doesn’t want to because it’s not the game he wants it to be. Whatever. 

2 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Strong argument...

Hard to argue nonsense. ‘Real gear’? So I guess Old Tom Morris would think the gear Hogan, Snead, Nicklaus etc. played with was garbage? Oh forget it....you’re just trolling. I know you can’t be serious.

[Jack Watson]

@Vinsk

I am sorry you shank.  I am and I offered a suggestion to help not sure if you tried it.  I only ask that if you disagree with me please present supporting evidence.  

Snedeker agrees with @joro and I.  You have yet to make a counter argument.  

I don't think you have one.  

[billchao]

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

I'd bet many on tour couldn't break 76 with vintage gear because their ballstriking is not good enough to use it.

I'd take that bet, as long as you give the PGA Tour player an adequate amount of time (like a year) to practice with the clubs and get adjusted.

This is the flaw in your argument. You can't hand a PGA Tour player whose never played with wooden clubs their entire lives those clubs and expect them to hit them well. But give them time to adjust to them and they will stripe them, too. Today's equipment allows the players to go all out for distance because the ball won't turn as much on mis-hits, but don't think for a second if these guys' livelihoods depended on hitting the ball more accurately at the cost of distance that they can't do it.

You're talking about guys who make dime-sized wear marks on their irons. A lot of them still play blades. Guys are swinging the driver in excess of 120mph and consistently off the center of the clubface.

If you think the best players in the world today are not as good as the best players of yesteryear, you're either lying to yourself about how good these guys are or you're a sentimental fool.

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, billchao said:

I'd take that bet, as long as you give the PGA Tour player an adequate amount of time (like a year) to practice with the clubs and get adjusted.

I agree. They also have to set the courses up like they back when they used wooden drivers.