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The Golf Ball "Problem": PGA Tour Players Hitting it Far is a Problem for All of Golf?


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The Golf Ball "Problem"  

174 members have voted

  1. 1. Does the distance modern PGA Tour pros hit the ball pose a problem to golf as a whole?

    • Yes
      40
    • No
      134
  2. 2. What is the main source of the "problem" above?

    • The golf ball goes too far, primarily.
      23
    • Several factors all contribute heavily.
      26
    • I voted "No" above, and I don't think there's really a "problem" right now.
      125


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21 minutes ago, lastings said:

Β Power was always an advantage, but it wasn't the sole determiner of success and players that lacked it could compensate with other skills.Β  Β 

Here is # of Top 10 wins versus Driving Distance. There really isn't a clear cut trend. Should a golfer be averaging over 285 to have a better chance, sure. Compared to the longest hitters, that is still 30 yards shorter. John Daly averaged 301 in 2000. 270 yards put you at Jim Furyk's level,Β ranked 136 in driving distance in 2000. In 2017, 285 yards has a ranking of 151. It isn't like the bottom half of golfers in driving distance are struggling that much.

Capture.JPG

Β 

21 minutes ago, lastings said:

You look at last year's money list you see Justin Thomas, DJ, Rahm, Koepka.Β  Β These guys are all huge power guys.Β  Β Accuracy just doesn't seem to matter anymore.Β  Β All those guys hit like 56% of fairways. But it just doesn't matter, because hitting a PW out of the rough is not as penalizing as hitting a 6-iron out of the rough.Β  Β 

Dustin Johnson averaged 162 yards on his approach shots. Justin Thomas averaged 168 yards. They are not routinely hitting pitching wedges.

21 minutes ago, lastings said:

When players were hitting 255-290, Distance got you into trouble, now distance seems to get you past trouble.Β  Β If a player that is 185th on the tour in Driving can be 3rd on the money list, obviously the game was more of a strategy match.Β 

Who said it was more strategic? In 1997, the average fairways hit was 68%. In 2017 the average fairways hit is 60.5%. You are talking about 1 less fairway hit per round.

22 minutes ago, lastings said:

But I do know what it means for the game, and that is simply that you better learn how to bomb that Driver.Β  Β it's the only club that matters anymore, in the pro game

No one said that. Does driving distance help, yea. Hitting greens in regulation, and getting the ball closer to the pin on approach shots matter more.

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5 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Here is # of Top 10 wins versus Driving Distance. There really isn't a clear cut trend. Should a golfer be averaging over 285 to have a better chance, sure. Compared to the longest hitters, that is still 30 yards shorter. John Daly averaged 301 in 2000. 270 yards put you at Jim Furyk's level,Β ranked 136 in driving distance in 2000. In 2017, 285 yards has a ranking of 151. It isn't like the bottom half of golfers in driving distance are struggling that much.

Capture.JPG

Β 

last years top 5 in money were Thomas (#8 in driving distance), Speith (75), DJ (2), Matsuyama (26), Rahm (5).Β  Β  Β  Not to mention McIlroy (1), who would have been right there if he played another 10-15 events.Β Β 
Saying there is not a correlation between Driving distance and Money is a bit absurd.)

11 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Dustin Johnson averaged 162 yards on his approach shots. Justin Thomas averaged 168 yards. They are not routinely hitting pitching wedges.

PW may have been a bit of hyperbole, but obviously their approaches were much closer than they were in '95.Β  Β and hitting from the rough is less of a penalty on closer shots.Β Β 

13 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Who said it was more strategic? In 1997, the average fairways hit was 68%. In 2017 the average fairways hit is 60.5%. You are talking about 1 less fairway hit per round.

Don't look at the tour average.Β  That just shows that as a whole the tour was more accurate back then.Β  Β If you want to look at how accuracy factors into strategy, look at who wins.Β  Β Last year the top 5 in money averaged 58%.Β  in '95, the top 5 in Money averaged 73%.Β  Β now you're talking about a 15% difference.Β  it was clearly more advantageous to be accurate then than it is now.Β Β 

19 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

No one said that. Does driving distance help, yea. Hitting greens in regulation, and getting the ball closer to the pin on approach shots matter more.

When players were hitting 260-290, you often had a better chance of a close approach hitting 260 down the pipe, than 285 wide right.Β  Β Now that players are hitting 290-315, it's more advantageous to be 315 and off target than 290 and down the middle.Β  Or, at least, the penalty by going off line poses less of a risk.Β  Β And this is obviously showing in their strategy choices.Β  Β Good players no longer fret about hitting 50% fairways, so long as they're bombing it.Β  Β 

Β 

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16 hours ago, lastings said:

I, for one, used to love it when short accurate playersΒ could compete with players much longer than thenselvesΒ by pounding fairways and greens all day. Β Those days are gone now though.Β 

If a short hitter is accurate enough, he can win, but shorter hitters are less skilled golfers. They lack the skill or ability to hit the ball as far as others with accuracy, making them less skilled (and thus less deserving to compete and win).

You'll also note, if you look through history, that all of the dominant golfers of any time period were long hitters. Sam Snead, Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Greg Norman. These guys were all regarded as longer hitters back in their hayday, which is part of why they ended up being some of the most notable golfers out there. Tiger Woods was so dominant because he could pound the ball so far past all of his competitors, not because of the rest of his game (though the rest of his game was also excellent). There has not been a dominant golfer in the last 50 years who was a short hitter, and there never will be.

I'll lay this out clearly: hitting the golf ball a long ways is one of the important skills in golf. If you can't do it, you will not be on a level playing field with those that can REGARDLESS of how far the golf ball flies for the long hitters. You'll always be shorter than them and at a disadvantage, because you lack the skill and ability of the longer hitter.

What you fail to understand is that rolling back the golf ball will also make the short hitters hit the ball even shorter still. They still can't compete with the longer hitters, because they still don't hit it as far. The course will always be longer for a shorter hitter, regardless of if you roll the ball back or not.Β 

Edited by Pretzel
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Just made this in excel for 2017 stats from the PGA Tour website FWIW

Golf.thumb.jpg.ddf3de70a6164de89e82fa4d34471a4e.jpg

Pretty crazy IMO that the 19th most accurate driver last year would have ranked 122 in 1995, and 52nd last year would have been 169.

Edited by klineka

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4 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

You'll also note, if you look through history, that all of the dominant golfers of any time period were long hitters. Sam Snead, Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Greg Norman. These guys were all regarded as longer hitters back in their hayday, which is part of why they ended up being some of the most notable golfers out there.

I am not saying anything opposed to this.Β  Β The long hitters are better golfers.Β  Β BUT..Β  Β Accuracy was always important.Β  The best players are both long AND accurate.Β  Β There are no driving accuracy stats before 1980, so I can't confirm in Snead, Palmer, Player, Hogan.Β  Β  But, I suspect that they are just the same as Nicklaus and Norman, who were routinely hitting 70% fairways.Β  Β 

I'm not saying that there was not a premium on distance in the past.Β  I'm saying there is no longer a premium on accuracy.Β  The added distance has taken that from the game.Β  Β 

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14 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

What you fail to understand is that rolling back the golf ball will also make the short hitters hit the ball even shorter still. They still can't compete with the longer hitters, because they still don't hit it as far.

It is certainly not that I don't understand that.Β  Β I get it very much.Β  Β The question I am asking is why is accuracy so much less important now than it was in the past?Β  Β 

Is the possible answer to this that the distance is now putting the ball past the teeth of the golf course?Β  Β because if this is the case then obviously there is less risk to swinging out of your shows.Β  Β Hitting fairways becomes less important.Β  Β  Furthermore, if you roll the ball back 30 yards, now maybe the big hitters are finding smaller landing areas andΒ they really have to dial back that swing or else they will find themselves in more nasty positions.Β  Β 

And, if this is the case, wouldn't that mean that the players currently hitting 285-290 are putting the ball in those nasty areas that the course architects put there for the purpose of deterring longer hitters?Β  Β 

I don't know if this is the case or not, I am only speculating.Β  Β I think there would have to be a wide ranging golf course study-to-ball flight study to figure that out.Β  Β But there has to be some reason that prior to 2000, hitting fairways was so much more important.Β  Β 

Β 

Β 

Β 

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22 minutes ago, klineka said:

Just made this in excel for 2017 stats from the PGA Tour website FWIW

Golf.thumb.jpg.ddf3de70a6164de89e82fa4d34471a4e.jpg

Pretty crazy IMO that the 19th most accurate driver last year would have ranked 122 in 1995, and 52nd last year would have been 169.

This does not take into account the fact that many courses were modified to become narrower and more difficult during the early 2000's as part of the widespread "Tiger-proofing" efforts that courses made. Courses are more difficult now than they were before.

18 minutes ago, lastings said:

I am not saying anything opposed to this.Β  Β The long hitters are better golfers.Β  Β BUT..Β  Β Accuracy was always important.Β  The best players are both long AND accurate.Β  Β There are no driving accuracy stats before 1980, so I can't confirm in Snead, Palmer, Player, Hogan.Β  Β  But, I suspect that they are just the same as Nicklaus and Norman, who were routinely hitting 70% fairways.Β  Β 

I'm not saying that there was not a premium on distance in the past.Β  I'm saying there is no longer a premium on accuracy.Β  The added distance has taken that from the game.Β  Β 

You are though, you're saying that distance never was the large advantage that it is today. The golfers of today are just as accurate as the golfers of yesteryear, but they play narrower courses and because they hit it further a small error is magnified into a larger error.Β 

To give you an idea of what this means, let's say Jack Nicklaus' shot cone was 5Β degrees wide on either side of center (10Β degree spread total). The sine of 4Β degrees is .08716, and if Jack Nicklaus drove the ball 285 yards on average his shot cone would be approximately 25Β yards wide either side of center (total width of 50 yards). Most medium width fairways are between 35 and 45 yards, meaning this 10 degree spread for all of his tee shots is reasonable since some will fall wide of even the wider fairways (but not many) and some will still fall within the tightest fairways.Β 

If we take the top PGA driving distance player with more than a single round, Tony Finau at 329.8 yards, and apply the same test we find that the overall width of his shot cone off the tee would be 29 yards wide. This means that,Β with identical accuracy,Β Tony Finau's shot's will spread nearly 20% wider than Jack Nicklaus' because he hits the ball 20% further. It stands to reason then that, if Tony was equally accurate compared to Jack Nicklaus, he would hit 20% fewer fairways and be hovering right around the 50% mark.

Except Tony isn't. Tony's fairway percentage on more difficult courses than Jack Nicklaus ever played is still 57.5% This is only 12.5% less than the 70% fairway claim you make for Jack Nicklaus (which is undoubtedly on the high end of estimates for his true fairway percentage), and it's on tighter and longer courses than Jack ever played. When you do the math, the long hitters of today are still more accurate than the greats of yesteryear (due to both technological advancement and increased levels of competition).

1 minute ago, lastings said:

I don't know if this is the case or not, I am only speculating.Β  Β I think there would have to be a wide ranging golf course study-to-ball flight study to figure that out.Β  Β But there has to be some reason that prior to 2000, hitting fairways was so much more important.Β  Β 

Hitting fairways did not have the effect you think it had. The reason the guys like Nicklaus hit more fairways than players of today is because they hit it shorter (meaning they didn't hit it as far offline with the same shot as a longer hitter) and because they played on wider courses than the players of today face. The fairways hit weren't what made them win, and they weren't even a sign of them being more accurate. As I explained above, the players of yesteryear wereΒ less accurateΒ than the players of today, but the fairway stats looked better.

Prior to 2000 hitting fairways had the same importance it does today: it can allow you a better or easier approach shot than from the rough. It has never held the mythical importance you seem to think it once did, because distance is another factor that allows you a better or easier approach shot. Arnold Palmer was famous for going around the golf course hitting the ball as hard as he could, finding the ball wherever it may lie, and doing it over again and he was incredibly successful in his career (during the same time period where you say there was a premium on fairways hit).Β 

Edited by Pretzel
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yes, that is a fair point.Β  Β 

but, would you also be willing to concede that there is a possibility that players are now, many times, carrying the ball over the narrow landing areas, sand traps, and wetlands that course designers placed there to deter long hitters, thus making their fairway misses less penalizing?Β Β 

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3 minutes ago, lastings said:

yes, that is a fair point.Β  Β 

but, would you also be willing to concede that there is a possibility that players are now, many times, carrying the ball over the narrow landing areas, sand traps, and wetlands that course designers placed there to deter long hitters, thus making their fairway misses less penalizing?Β Β 

The average length of courses have increased, so on some courses those narrow areas and such will still be in play. Are there some courses that havent changed or havent been made long enough, sure. But as a whole courses have gotten longer.Β 

http://lowround.co/golf-visualization/driving-and-course-length-pga-tour-last-25-years

length.thumb.jpg.1f4fd2b36100491cbfddd39aea1425a7.jpg

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Not sure if this should go here or in architecture but tweeter is making a point about long hitters. Thoughts? Agree/disagree?

Β 

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49 minutes ago, lastings said:

yes, that is a fair point.Β  Β 

but, would you also be willing to concede that there is a possibility that players are now, many times, carrying the ball over the narrow landing areas, sand traps, and wetlands that course designers placed there to deter long hitters, thus making their fairway misses less penalizing?Β Β 

As @klinekaΒ mentioned, the courses are not what they used to be. When they made the courses longer, what they usually did was simply move the tee boxes back whenever possible since it's the most economical and easiest solution. This means that the landing areas of today are in the same spot on the course in relation to hazards and such.Β 

In addition, as I mentioned before, much of the golf course "Tiger-proofing" of the early 2000's took the form of narrowing up the landing areas at around 290-310 yards from the tee boxes where the long hitters were driving the ball to. The fairways of today, as a result, as more challenging than the fairways from before because they maintain the same narrow fairways and difficult features (such as traps and water hazards) but at a further distance from the golfer. It requires a more accurate golfer to hit the same size target at a distance further away from them, in the same way that hitting a 3 iron to a small green is harder than hitting a 5 iron to the same green.

2 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Not sure if this should go here or in architecture but tweeter is making a point about long hitters. Thoughts? Agree/disagree?

Β 

I have to disagree with this point, simply because the dogleg has always given an advantage to the longer player. Once again, longer hitters having an advantage is nothing new. The only thing that has changed since Nicklaus and Palmer played, or the courses were designed, is the length from the tee to the dogleg (that has increased, as the average driving distance has also increased). The distance gap between the longest players and the average or short hitters has always existed, and it will always continue to exist.Β 

If they made the claim that the dogleg was irrelevant because even the shortest hitters on tour could hit it past the doglegs on a course, then it would be evidence that a change (for that course, not the the ball or equipment) would be in order. In a case like that you would want to move the tee boxes back so that there is some risk to attempting to cut the corner.Β As it stands in the photo, however, there is a risk to going over the dogleg (hitting it in either of the bunkers or in the rough long/short) but the reward of being closer to the hole is also present. This is how a dogleg is meant to work.

Fleetwood (and Johnson, to a lesser extend) took the risk but didn't receive the same reward that McIlroy did because they didn't hit as good of shots. This is the entire point of a dogleg hole, not some kind of negative consequence. The dogleg in this picture is working exactly as the designers intended it to, because it provides a higher risk but higher reward option as well as the safer bailout just shortΒ of the dogleg and the bunkers (see that wide section of fairway there? That's the easy bail out area). 3 players took the risk in this photo and 1 was successful, another suffered a minor consequence, and one ended up in the hazard placed directly on the corner.

The only thing the graphic exemplifies is exactly why the dogleg still works. Even the long hitters in the group can find the exact same trouble (notice how McIlroy and Johnson would've found the bunker on the right if he pushed they pushed their shots right?) if they don't hit a well-placed shot.

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6 hours ago, lastings said:

I just hearken back to a different time when the game was not all about power.

Please don't make blanket statements without something to back them up. Zach Johnson won a major recently. He's well below David Toms in driving distance by ranking.

I disagree that it'sΒ "all about power."

6 hours ago, lastings said:

Power was always an advantage, but it wasn't the sole determiner of success and players that lacked it could compensate with other skills.

Still true today. Look at 3-6 onΒ the Driving Distance list last year: Brandon Hagy, Ryan Brehm, Luke List, Andrew Loupe.

5 hours ago, lastings said:

Saying there is not a correlation between Driving distance and Money is a bit absurd.)

Please, what's the R2 value of a line in this chart:

6 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Capture.JPG

What's the correlation? Top tens versus average driving distance. Yeah, the dots are a little higher in the right side on average, but there's not an obvious, clear line there. Where do Luke List, Ryan Brehm, Andrew Loupe, or the #3 guy - Brandon Hagy - fall on that chart, @lastings?

5 hours ago, lastings said:

Last year the top 5 in money averaged 58%.Β  in '95, the top 5 in Money averaged 73%.Β  Β now you're talking about a 15% difference.Β  it was clearly more advantageous to be accurate then than it is now.

You do realize that even if fairway widths had stayed the same, a guy hitting it 320 and finding the fairway 58% of the timeΒ mightΒ be more accurate than a guy hitting it 270 and findingΒ the fairway 73% of the time, right?

Further balls hit the same, say, 2.73Β° offline will continue to carry further left or right while being, by one measure, equally as accurate. Fairways hit is a lousy stat for accuracy. My kid, whose long drives that hit a sprinkler head reach 200 yards on a good day, hits a LOT of fairways.

Fairway accuracy is a bad stat.

5 hours ago, lastings said:

it's more advantageous to be 315 and off target than 290 and down the middle.

No, it's not. That's 25 yards. Find the "fairway" and "rough" expected strokes here 25 yards apart in any approach shot distance and you'll see the fairway hit is better:

5 hours ago, lastings said:

The question I am asking is why is accuracy so much less important now than it was in the past?

You haven't really proven that it is "so much less important."

5 hours ago, Pretzel said:

If we take the top PGA driving distance player with more than a single round, Tony Finau at 329.8 yards, and apply the same test we find that the overall width of his shot cone off the tee would be 29 yards wide. This means that,Β with identical accuracy,Β Tony Finau's shot's will spread nearly 20% wider than Jack Nicklaus' because he hits the ball 20% further. It stands to reason then that, if Tony was equally accurate compared to Jack Nicklaus, he would hit 20% fewer fairways and be hovering right around the 50% mark.

Yep.

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Alright guys, you win. Β It’s not even a conversation here, just an argument. Β  No one seems to be willing to give even the slightest of concessionsΒ to any point that doesn’t fully support their argument. Β 

I don’t really know the answers, and I was only trying to explore the why? Β It just feels like driver distance didn’t used to be such a necessity forΒ success in the 90’s. Β It also felt like 55% fairways hit just wasn’t going to cut it if you wanted to win consistently in the 90s. Β Now that’s just the norm. Β 

Maybe β€œfelt” was the key word there. Β Maybe the determiners of success are exactly the same today.Β 

Edited by lastings

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One thing I will note though, is that this shot cone point that keeps being used is kind of bunk. Β Accurate drivers have a tendency to bend the ball back towards the middle. Β So, a drive that starts 2.5 degrees to right does continue to go further and further away from the target line as if started 2.5 right and went in a straight line. Β Ball flight bends. Β Β 

:tmade:Β Β -Β SIM2 - Kuro Kage silver 60 shaft
:cobra:Β  - F9 3W, 15Β degree - Fukijara Atmos white tour spec stiff flex shaft

:tmade:Β - M2 hybrid, 19Β degree
:tmade:Β - GAPR 3 iron - 18degree
:mizuno:Β MP-H5 4-5 iron, MP-25 6-8 iron, MP-5 9-PW

Miura - 1957 series k-grindΒ - 56Β degree
:bettinardi:Β - 52 degree
:titleist: - Scotty Cameron Newport 2 - Putter

check out my swing here

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2 hours ago, lastings said:

Alright guys, you win. Β It’s not even a conversation here, just an argument.

An argument can be a discussion, and vice versa.

2 hours ago, lastings said:

No one seems to be willing to give even the slightest of concessionsΒ to any point that doesn’t fully support their argument.

I realize this may come across poorly, but… make a point.

Thus far you've used a poor stat like fairways hit %, ignored the fact that folks like Zach Johnson are winning in the modern game, and said things like "distance matters so much more" while ignoring a chart that shows very little correlation between distance and top-ten finishes. Among other things.

In other words, I feel like you're simplyΒ losingΒ the argument.

And I realize you might feel that I'm just saying that as someone who's argued the other side ofΒ the argument, but… still.

2 hours ago, lastings said:

It just feels like driver distance didn’t used to be such a necessity forΒ success in the 90’s.

That's not really an argument. That's just what it "feels" like.

2 hours ago, lastings said:

It also felt like 55% fairways hit just wasn’t going to cut it if you wanted to win consistently in the 90s. Β Now that’s just the norm.

Did you read the points I've made, @saevel25Β I think has made, or that @PretzelΒ definitely made about how fairways hit % is a horrible way to measure "accuracy"?

1 hour ago, lastings said:

One thing I will note though, is that this shot cone point that keeps being used is kind of bunk. Β Accurate drivers have a tendency to bend the ball back towards the middle. Β So, a drive that starts 2.5 degrees to right does continue to go further and further away from the target line as if started 2.5 right and went in a straight line. Β Ball flight bends.

The 2.5Β° cone or whatever is for where the ball finishes.

Erik J. Barzeski β€” β›³Β I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. πŸŒπŸΌβ€β™‚οΈ
Director of InstructionΒ Golf EvolutionΒ β€’Β Owner,Β The Sand Trap .comΒ β€’Β Author,Β Lowest Score Wins
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11 hours ago, iacas said:

while ignoring a chart that shows very little correlation between distance and top-ten finishes.Β 

This is exactly what I’m talking about. This is an internet argument at its finest. Β Far from a discussion. Β People just see what they want to see. And ignore everything else.Β 

Either you are unfamiliar with how to read a chart, or you’ve chosen to see it only the way you want to see it. Β 

This chart shows a direct correlation between driving distance and top 10 wins.Β 

Dont believe me? Β Look at the % of dots in the above 310 category that have over 6 wins. Β Now look at the % of dots in the 300-310 category that have over 6 wins. Β Now look at the % of dots in the 290-300 category that have over 6 wins. Β Keep going down the line. Notice a pattern? Β That is the definition of correlation.Β 

UnfortunateΒ that had to be pointed out, though, because that was never my point. Β You’d have to be a block head to not believe there is a correlation between driving distance and winning. Β Guess what? Hitting the ball far helps you in golf. Β Not really a big revelation there.Β 

All I’m suggesting is that if you plotted the same chart based on driving accuracy (as flawed of a stat as it may be), you would see little to no correlation between that and winning. But, I believe that if you plotted that chart in the 90s, the correlation would be there. I’m only trying to explore why that is.Β 

Edited by lastings

:tmade:Β Β -Β SIM2 - Kuro Kage silver 60 shaft
:cobra:Β  - F9 3W, 15Β degree - Fukijara Atmos white tour spec stiff flex shaft

:tmade:Β - M2 hybrid, 19Β degree
:tmade:Β - GAPR 3 iron - 18degree
:mizuno:Β MP-H5 4-5 iron, MP-25 6-8 iron, MP-5 9-PW

Miura - 1957 series k-grindΒ - 56Β degree
:bettinardi:Β - 52 degree
:titleist: - Scotty Cameron Newport 2 - Putter

check out my swing here

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24 minutes ago, lastings said:

Β All I’m suggesting is that if you plotted the same chart based on driving accuracy (as flawed of a stat as it may be), you would see little to no correlation between that and winning. But, I believe that if you plotted that chart in the 90s, the correlation would be there. I’m only trying to explore why that is.Β 

I’m not sure you would see any correlation. The game has always been a ball strikers game. GIR is anΒ easy to see stat even,Β if they are 100ft away, it’s on. Β FairwaysΒ hit would still count the chunked drives that went 100yds, for example. Β It is a highly scewed stat and because of that, it wouldn’t show you a lot.

Saying you believe,Β is not presenting evidence that it did actually happen. You’re searching for evidence and peopleΒ are trying to say there probably isn’t any based on x, y, and z.

I understand what you are getting to for fairway accuracy. Β I just don’t think you’ll find the answer you want.Β 

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach;Β Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
Β 
TeamΒ :srixon:!

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2 hours ago, phillyk said:

FairwaysΒ hit would still count the chunked drives that went 100yds, for example.Β 

We’re still talking about professional golfers here, right? I’m having a tough time believing that Greg Norman’s fairway % is inflated because of all the 100-ydΒ chunks he had.Β 

:tmade:Β Β -Β SIM2 - Kuro Kage silver 60 shaft
:cobra:Β  - F9 3W, 15Β degree - Fukijara Atmos white tour spec stiff flex shaft

:tmade:Β - M2 hybrid, 19Β degree
:tmade:Β - GAPR 3 iron - 18degree
:mizuno:Β MP-H5 4-5 iron, MP-25 6-8 iron, MP-5 9-PW

Miura - 1957 series k-grindΒ - 56Β degree
:bettinardi:Β - 52 degree
:titleist: - Scotty Cameron Newport 2 - Putter

check out my swing here

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Note:Β This thread is 1192 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic.Β Thank you!

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