Is Golf More Mental or Physical?

[Lihu]

7 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

You have to calibrate the end goal to your ability (including time available). Start with doable things and toughen the goal up as you get better.

Yes. That's a different kind of pressure, one based on your ability to withstand a financial or pride loss. But, it's not real pressure if you have the means to cover the loss easily. Like Trevino once said: "real pressure is being in a $20 match with $5 in your pocket!" 

True, but these are still physical things we're doing to improve our mental game.

What I was challenging people to do is a mental drill to improve my physical game. So far, no takers. . .

[sjduffers]

59 minutes ago, Lihu said:

True, but these are still physical things we're doing to improve our mental game.

What I was challenging people to do is a mental drill to improve my physical game. So far, no takers. . .

You asked: "If anyone can give a clear example of how to improve your mental game through drills like there are for the physical part of the game, then correlate that to an improvement in score, I'd love to hear it."

You didn't ask for a mental drill to improve your physical game (or even your mental game). Just the opposite, you asked for a drill (of an unspecified kind) to improve your mental game.

I think I gave you one. QED. 

That said, if you want a mental drill to improve your physical game, try visualization. It works too! It won't make you do things that you can't, but it will help make sure you achieve things that you can. Big difference.

[iacas]

BTW, when I mentioned this topic to @david_wedzik, he laughed for 15 seconds straight. Then we talked about something else.

[Piz]

I think golf is a mental game that requires physical aptitude.  It reminds me of music: a mental construct that is revealed via manual dexterity.  A sound mentality demands less of physicality.  People that make "it" look easy are not tying knots in their heads.  Or maybe they are...just different knots.

[mvmac]

16 minutes ago, Piz said:

People that make "it" look easy are not tying knots in their heads.  Or maybe they are...just different knots.

Golfers with good mechanics make it look easier than bogey golfers. Good technique looks better than "bad" technique.

Also there are plenty of bogey golfers who shoot 90-100 who's heads aren't in knots just as there are golfers who's heads are in knots that can easily break par.

Good mechanics trumps the mental game every time by a big margin.

[Buckeyebowman]

In the end, all I'll say is that when I got pretty good it took a whole lot of physical effort! I went to the range just about every day, at least 5-6 days a week!

There were mental contributions. I'd go out with 2 yardsticks to measure how far I was from the ball, and check my stance and alignment. I read many instructional articles. Tried a lot of different stuff and discarded what didn't work for me.

But the net result was figuring out what was successful and repeating it seemingly endlessly!

How many times have we read stories about a golfer in a pressure packed situation who, in his mind, couldn't remember how to swing the club or even get the swing started! Eventually he lets go and has the body take over. The body remembers. One of my buddy's primary problems is that he thinks too much!

[Ds29028]

First time on the sand trap, I like the iron reviews section. Also please forgive me for my poor English, I moved to US just two years ago.

 

I am a professional tennis player, currently ranked in top 400 in world ATP and hope to be top 200 next season. I enjoy golf a lot, but am not good and am so inconsistent. I hope to be good after I retire as a professional. I am starting to play a few with my season over, but saw topic and wished to share my experience in tennis because it is one of my struggle.

 

What is does it take to be on ATP? Of course physical ability is necessity. I cannot say much else here. However, what do I personally spend my time to focus on?  it is more difficult to say. Off season my focus is 100% physical. Improve stroke, Smart Coach analytics, strength and conditioning. Between tournaments and qualifiers it is similar. But all this is only training, not playing. It is all only training for tournaments which is 90% mental. I cannot change my form and muscle memory in the week before a tournament. I cannot change it during a tournament. If I try, I will be not good at all. Of course I workout and practice everyday during, but my stroke is continual at my level. So no need to think about it. Focus only on thinking sharp and calm and things like "attack always attack". Of course if problems with backhand, I work on it. But I am not changing it greatly it at the tournament. I try to focus my mind and let my training free.

 

I know it cannot be same for amateurs. But I do not need to think about other things, my sleep, eating, workout and practice schedules during tournaments are firmly scheduled. 

 

I have mental coach too, but there is no exercise or drills. I see him a 1-2 hours a season. I see my regular coach for one hundred times more often. But I practice mental game whenever I practice or play, all the time. At least I think few players on tour does not read the books or have a lot of routine or effort for mental game. But same players can describe it something different. It is difficult to guess what they think mental game is. 

 

What I think in training? Physical game always. What I think when playing? mental game always. 

 

What is more important? If you are 19 and already top 200, physical ability. If you do not play for competition, physical ability. But for me it is like air or water, I cannot play my best without both, and I cannot reach my goals without playing my best. 

 

I am sorry if this does not belong to the fun topic. thank you.

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, sjduffers said:

You asked: "If anyone can give a clear example of how to improve your mental game through drills like there are for the physical part of the game, then correlate that to an improvement in score, I'd love to hear it."

You didn't ask for a mental drill to improve your physical game (or even your mental game). Just the opposite, you asked for a drill (of an unspecified kind) to improve your mental game.

I think I gave you one. QED. 

That said, if you want a mental drill to improve your physical game, try visualization. It works too! It won't make you do things that you can't, but it will help make sure you achieve things that you can. Big difference.

Quite right, now I’m clarifying my request to a mental drill to help my game.

I’m now visualizing myself as Rory firing a drive past Dustin. Next I picture myself as Matsuyama with his famous approach shots sinking my second shot for eagle, it goes that way for 10 par 4s and I get holes in 1 on par 3. Oops only birdied one par 5 but eagled the rest for a 33! Golf is super easy, why would anyone struggle!?! 

Joking, but we’re prone to visualizing ourselves much better than we are, which is why there are so many posts about improving mental game on the course.

Most of us are not as optimistic as I portrayed above, but we all think we’re better that we really are.

I was bombing 1/4 of my drives the other day and someone asked how I score, I told him I shot 15 over my last round on 9 holes. He looked kind of disappointedly at me. Like I wasn’t on the driving range for a good reason or something?!? 

[sjduffers]

20 minutes ago, Lihu said:

 Joking, but we’re prone to visualizing ourselves much better than we are, which is why there are so many posts about improving mental game on the course.

Most of us are not as optimistic as I portrayed above, but we all think we’re better that we really are.

I am sorry but i disagree with that. If you have never stood right behind Rory when he bombs one, and most of us haven't, you don't even know what it looks like so that's not what your mind is going to picture. At least,  not my mind.

We may "see" our best shot (under the circumstances) when we visualize and I'll easily conceed that it's better than what we really are, but that also explains the power of visualization.

If I need to go over a tree from say 145 yds, it helps me to see in my mind the last shot I achieved that way (club, lie, etc..) and picture it happening again in this instance. Imagining DJ hitting a towering 140ft high 9 iron when i need a 75ft high 6 iron is not going to help me. One. Bit.

[Lihu]

31 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

I am sorry but i disagree with that. If you have never stood right behind Rory when he bombs one, and most of us haven't, you don't even know what it looks like so that's not what your mind is going to picture. At least,  not my mind.

I was joking after all. . .or rather exaggerating. The issue at hand is we often visualize ourselves as being better than we actually are.

Try this experiment. Make your normal swing 100 times with your 9i or a really comfortable club for you. With the first 50 visualize yourself making the perfect shot. The second 50 visualize yourself hitting too thin or topping it while still making the same swing and aiming for the same exact spot. I'd be willing to bet that you'd end up making the same exact shots for both sets of balls.

Our best shots and worst shots are really only limited by our ability to swing and make contact, and not visualizing failure or success before the shot.

 

31 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

We may "see" our best shot (under the circumstances) when we visualize and I'll easily conceed that it's better than what we really are, but that also explains the power of visualization.

The main issue I have with this sort of visualization is that when the results are bad, the visualizer loses his temper somehow thinking he should have made that shot. Instead of thinking about the lie and the back swing. You can visualize those to some degree, but not really to the point of making contact with the ball.

 

31 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

If I need to go over a tree from say 145 yds, it helps me to see in my mind the last shot I achieved that way (club, lie, etc..) and picture it happening again in this instance.

I agree with this kind of visualization, but then you miss this shot you hit 50 times in a row at the driving range and your "mental" game fell apart?

The issue with most golfers is that they hit well on the driving range and think they should be able to take that to the course. The problem is that the lie on the course is worse, the grass is possibly thicker, you're tired. All kinds of things change the conditions on the course which make it much harder than the driving range.

 

31 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Imagining DJ hitting a towering 140ft high 9 iron when i need a 75ft high 6 iron is not going to help me. One. Bit.

I'm guessing that even overestimating your own ability to expect to hit a 6i 75 feet high over a tree 145 yards away to land a green some 180-ish yards away is likely not going to result in a good shot either. You can probably do it on the driving range some or even most of the time, but to depend upon that might make for failure and a "mental lapse" because you think you should be able to do it reliably.

I don't think visualization is a bad thing per se, but only if used in the context of "attempt" rather than "expectation".

[Buckeyebowman]

I think some of this relates to a thread that Erik started titled, something like, "Playing Golf Without a Thought", or "Golf Without a Thought". Something like that. And I'm not talking about the "woogie, woogie", mystical, Golf in the Kingdom stuff!

Once I learned my swing, through endless experiment and repetition, I knew it! I had internalized it. Thus, I didn't have to think very much about it. Other than what kind of shot I wanted to hit with it. And since I knew how to do those, that thought process was very rapid as well.

I've said before that when I was really on my game I didn't have "swing thoughts". I had "shot thoughts". I think it was Nicklaus who said, "If I go into a round with only one swing thought in my mind, that is one thought too many!" Swing thoughts are for practice on the range. Why do you think there are folks who get the moniker "Ricky Ranger"? They hit the ball great on the range but can't take it to the course.

If you're playing a round and thinking about how to start your takeaway, or where your hands should be at the top, or whatever, you are screwed! You have to think about how you're going to play the course. You have to "run whatcha brung"! And just make the best of it that you can.

I used to be able to do that back in the day when I had the time to spend, I can't do that now, and I suspect many here can't either. All you can do is the best you can. But, I'd advise you, no matter your handicap, to abandon swing thoughts on the course and just play!

[boogielicious]

Off topic, but when @BaconNEggs quotes @omelette, I get really hungry. 

I think if we rephrased the poll question to define "Mental" with more specificity, then the results would be different. Mental as in "brain unconsciously controlling body function" vs. "psychological state or conscious control while playing" would give completely different answers.

I think your mind has a lot to do with setting up for a shot, but once you begin the process, any conscious thought process that tries to control your physical action will interfere with the execution of the shot. This is why you try and limit swing thoughts to maybe one. One thought at set up can help. More than one can confound.

[JonMA1]

17 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I think if we rephrased the poll question to define "Mental" with more specificity, then the results would be different. Mental as in "brain unconsciously controlling body function" vs. "psychological state or conscious control while playing" would give completely different answers.

Agreed.

There's no denying that there is some "conscious control while playing". I don't think anyone has said there is zero and it obviously differs from one individual to another.

But the thread title and poll question asked which is "more".

Most of the responses I read as personal opinion regarding one's own game. I find it impossible to dispute another person's claim as to how much the thought process affects their own results. Others may find it easier.

I think the main argument comes with how much it affects the golf population as a whole.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

Agreed.

There's no denying that there is some "conscious control while playing". I don't think anyone has said there is zero and it obviously differs from one individual to another.

But the thread title and poll question asked which is "more".

Most of the responses I read as personal opinion regarding one's own game. I find it impossible to dispute another person's claim as to how much the thought process affects their own results. Others may find it easier.

I think the main argument comes with how much it affects the golf population as a whole.

Makes sense and it's reflected in the poll numbers which are about 70/30, but the "more" is critical.

People should review their answers, now that we have a definition "mental", and change accordingly.

To be fair, my putting sucks, sure, but it's not a mental issue. Apparently, a putter should not be aimed like a pistol or rifle. So, again, not mental.

[Jack Watson]

The op was about the game of golf.  I voted mental.  Now don't get me wrong, obviously you have to develop the physical skill of club use first.  So it seems illogical to say it's a mental game after all it cannot be played at all using just your mind.

However the genesis of all the physical part is mental intention.  As always,  I hold to the basic position that from my perspective if you have the right mental approach to developing the physical skill it is much easier to develop it.  

Learning to swing well takes time,  but it doesn't have to be as complex and difficult as it is often made to seem.  Once you truly get what swinging a club is truly about then it's not all that difficult to be competent.

Imo use the wrong mental intent as you are trying to develop the physical side and it can become impossible to ever get it.

Back to the original question.  

Imo once you have developed the basic skill of swinging the club then playing the game is much more mental than physical.  It does not require great physical strength or speed or even above average flexibility.  The ball just sits there.

The mental aspect of playing golf is concentration and confidence is huge with that.  Shot selection and self knowledge are all mental.

Knowing when you can let the shaft out vs playing conservative.  Mental.  Developing a psr that gets you into your zone that's mental.

Dealing with poor shots/pressure.  Again mental.  Playing unafraid again mental.

Imo if you have a simple approach to the swing and develop that then the true game opens up.  It becomes about self knowledge and integrating the skill you have into the situation in front of you which is the course.

Thats fun.  

At least for me,  the mental side generates the physical outcome because it dictates the swing.  So much of it for me is the challenge of concentration and not allowing distraction and ones own self to get in the way.  

I agree with Hogan that anyone with average physical ability can break 80 with a proper intelligent mental approach.  Beyond that I think talent comes into play as well.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Jack Watson

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

Learning to swing well takes time,  but it doesn't have to be as complex and difficult as it is often made to seem.  Once you truly get what swinging a club is truly about then it's not all that difficult to be competent.

It doesn’t seem to be difficult, it is. I think you forget that what you consider ‘competent’ isn’t what others may consider as competent. I don’t buy for one minute that you’re just fine with your 8.4hcp and would be upset if you went to 0. Just because you claim to be thrilled at your level of play doesn’t  mean you’ve discovered anything and have unlocked the secret to golf. You’re an ok golfer. You’re only ok because it’s hard. You can tell yourself til you’re blue on the face that you’ve uncovered the secret and it’s all so simple. Nobody buys that but you. Sorry buddy ...a little harsh, just growing a little tiresome of the ‘golf swing is simple’ nonsense.

[Lihu]

Apparently, I don’t have the “yips” while putting, I just suck at it 

[Jack Watson]

34 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

It doesn’t seem to be difficult, it is. I think you forget that what you consider ‘competent’ isn’t what others may consider as competent. I don’t buy for one minute that you’re just fine with your 8.4hcp and would be upset if you went to 0. Just because you claim to be thrilled at your level of play doesn’t  mean you’ve discovered anything and have unlocked the secret to golf. You’re an ok golfer. You’re only ok because it’s hard. You can tell yourself til you’re blue on the face that you’ve uncovered the secret and it’s all so simple. Nobody buys that but you. Sorry buddy ...a little harsh, just growing a little tiresome of the ‘golf swing is simple’ nonsense.

Its just not that diffcult really.  Its perspective.  From the perspective of a biomechanics expert analyzing DJ or Chris Como analyzing Tiger things get complex and difficult.

From inside it absolutely can be very very simple as far as intent and relatively easy.

Thats why it's so mental.  It's so easy to screw around and make things more complicated by allowing yourself to get distracted from the task at hand.

When you watch how most golfers go about their business it's obvious to me why what I say makes no sense to them and I get the response I do talking about how mental approach to skills acquisition makes such a difference.

Also I never would ever have learned my current viewpoint had I not already gone through pretty much a career in another sport and that's really where my standpoint developed.  I realized all this stuff much more in the later years of my 'career.'

Everything we do starts with the mental side.  It's amazing how the mind works with relation to hand eye skill activities and how intent changes can accelerate learning.

One reason I share is because I am aware most people literally have no idea what that's about.  People take the reductionist approach to the swing breaking it into many pieces when it's better to view it as a whole.