Pre-Shot/Post-Shot Routine Importance

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Ty_Webb said:

I appreciate this is somewhat facetious, but does figuring out your yardage and what club to hit count as pre-shot routine? Because I would defy anyone to shoot a good score without even thinking about what club they are going to hit. Even if you're just looking at the flag and guessing what club it is, that's still as much of an effort as considering how the ball has reacted to the elements after the shot.

Albeit it's going to be hard to shoot a decent score if you don't watch where your ball goes at all too. 

The question asks what’s more important. If you take that as only applying to the current round, then you may arrive at different answers than if you take a long-term view.

[saevel25]

25 minutes ago, klineka said:

Yes you want to watch where the ball flight goes, but for that specific round you might not face that same shot again. . 

I think the point might be that people never consider the possibility that taking in the information post impact would benefit their game.

In your specific situation, yes. Specific shots will challenge the golfer and pre-shot routine would be more beneficial. Knowing how to set up correctly for unique shots is important.

You are considering one shot when you have 14 tees shots in a round were gaining information early on can probably save you a lot of strokes later on if you start to hit the driver better over the round.

Yes, if a golfer isn't even trying to have some semblance of a pre-shot routine then it doesn't matter what information he gains from the shot he just hit.

32 minutes ago, klineka said:

If you consider things like how the swing felt, how the ball reacted to the elements, etc as part of a post shot routine, then I think things such as what kind of lie you have, wind direction, elevation change, calculating the distance to the flag, aiming to avoid hazards, etc should all be considered part of your preshot routine, even though some of those things most of us do without a second thought, just like most of us do certain things post shot like watch how the ball reacted to the elements, think in our minds was that a crisp strike or was it fat/thin, etc.

I would agree with this. I don't think most people actively think about retaining and using the information of the shot they just hit. Like sometimes I can go through the motions of a pre-shot routine and have to back off because I totally blank on where I want to aim my body. I think just being more aware is good advice as well.

 

[Ty_Webb]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

The question asks what’s more important. If you take that as only applying to the current round, then you may arrive at different answers than if you take a long-term view.

Long term view, if you pick a club at random to hit, you're not going to learn anything. If you pull out a wedge to hit on the tee of a 450 yard par four, because you didn't take a moment to think about what club to hit, you can have all the post-shot routine in the world and it won't do anything productive either long or short term. Your pre-shot routine includes determining how far you have to go, what trouble is out there, where you should aim it etc. Your post-shot routine is I think basically about deciding how well you decided on all of those things and if you didn't do a good job, why not? The post-shot routine doesn't really mean much if you don't have the pre-shot routine, so at best they are equally important. The point of your post-shot routine is to improve your pre-shot routine I think.

If you take a short term view, then your pre-shot routine is vastly more important. You can certainly play without a post-shot routine. I don't think you could ever play without a pre-shot routine. 

[rehmwa]

I wonder if the question is better off if phrased more obnoxiously:

I you vote pre-shot, why?  and what do you think you can do better to get more out of your post shot routine

and vice versa

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Long term view, if you pick a club at random to hit

Nobody does that. Even the people who don't really try to get a yardage or factor the wind or the lie or the position of the flag on the green or any of that stuff don't "pick a club at random."

21 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

If you pull out a wedge to hit on the tee of a 450 yard par four

If you find yourself arguing stuff like this… something may have gone awry.

20 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Your pre-shot routine includes determining how far you have to go, what trouble is out there, where you should aim it etc.

Maybe…?

20 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

The post-shot routine doesn't really mean much if you don't have the pre-shot routine, so at best they are equally important. The point of your post-shot routine is to improve your pre-shot routine I think.

I don't necessarily agree. Which is fine.

And to the italicized, no, it's possibly to improve your ballstriking, or your swing, or all kinds of things long-term.

You seem to be thinking only of the round being played. If in my last four rounds I notice that I occasionally start the ball a little too far left, I may not have made a change on the course to do too much because it was just a few times here and there, but I may want to investigate the possible cause in a practice session.

20 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

If you take a short term view, then your pre-shot routine is vastly more important. You can certainly play without a post-shot routine. I don't think you could ever play without a pre-shot routine. 

That's true if you're forcing everyone to use the "everything but randomly hitting a club in a random direction" as "a pre-shot routine." But I've seen plenty of people who have what I would call "no pre-shot routine" play golf, and do okay.

So generally speaking I think you're being too broad in defining pre-shot routine and too narrow in considering the scope of the "importance." After all, pre-shot can affect only the next shot. Post-shot can affect the next million. Ahhhh…

[dzclarkcpa]

I voted for pre-shot because, for me, it is more important that I get into the right mindset to assure I am mentally ready to hit the shot. However, as of lately, I have started to put more emphasis on the post shot. Recognizing the feelings and results of shots can help me later in a round. 

So said another way, pre-shot for me is more important across multiple round, but post shot is becoming more important during the current round.

[Ty_Webb]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Nobody does that. Even the people who don't really try to get a yardage or factor the wind or the lie or the position of the flag on the green or any of that stuff don't "pick a club at random."

Those people have a short pre-shot routine, but it's very important to them...

There are however people whose post-shot routine consists of handing their club to their caddie and nothing more. Those people are still able to play the 

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

If you find yourself arguing stuff like this… something may have gone awry.

No arguments here :p

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

And to the italicized, no, it's possibly to improve your ballstriking, or your swing, or all kinds of things long-term.

You seem to be thinking only of the round being played. If in my last four rounds I notice that I occasionally start the ball a little too far left, I may not have made a change on the course to do too much because it was just a few times here and there, but I may want to investigate the possible cause in a practice session.

That's true if you're forcing everyone to use the "everything but randomly hitting a club in a random direction" as "a pre-shot routine." But I've seen plenty of people who have what I would call "no pre-shot routine" play golf, and do okay.

So generally speaking I think you're being too broad in defining pre-shot routine and too narrow in considering the scope of the "importance." After all, pre-shot can affect only the next shot. Post-shot can affect the next million. Ahhhh…

Fair enough re improving your ball striking. Again that's just something that happens in my head. I don't have to try to do this.

Maybe you could tell me what you mean by pre-shot routine? When does it start and when does it end? I consider picking a club part of the pre-shot routine. I didn't think that was excessively broad. The only way to not pick a club is to do so at random.

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Those people have a short pre-shot routine, but it's very important to them...

That's your definition. I wouldn't say I disagree strongly, but I don't think "looks like a 7-iron maybe" and aiming in the general direction of the flag is really a "pre-shot routine." Routine implies that you do the same thing. Some of these people I don't consider to have a pre-shot routine don't do the same thing two times in a row, let alone consistently throughout the round.

17 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

There are however people whose post-shot routine consists of handing their club to their caddie and nothing more.

So are the people with no pre-shot routine (by my definition).

17 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Fair enough re improving your ball striking. Again that's just something that happens in my head. I don't have to try to do this.

Don't you think some people could say the same thing about their pre-shot routine?

17 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

Maybe you could tell me what you mean by pre-shot routine? When does it start and when does it end? I consider picking a club part of the pre-shot routine. I didn't think that was excessively broad. The only way to not pick a club is to do so at random.

I don't think most people consider that part of the pre-shot routine.

I think most people consider the pre-shot routine to be the 20 seconds or so before you hit. You've already chosen the club, and you've even taken a practice swing or two. Basically, from when you start lining up. You take your stance and align, waggle a few times or whatever, look at your target, clarify your mental thought, and swing.

I think that's how most people would define it.

But here's the thing, and sorry but it's gonna shut this conversation you want to have with me down… but I don't care what anyone's individual definitions are. The entire point is simply to make you think. Everyone's answers can all be right depending on how they define things, what they consider to be the "importance" of the things (short term, long term, whatever)… and so on. It's a semantic knot I have no interest in untying. Everyone's got a different knot. Everyone can be right, depending on how they interpret things, what their goals are, etc.

So… I don't care if you like my definitions. They're mine, and I've made an educated guess at what the majority might see one of them as… but I could be wrong about that, too.

The point was simply to make you think. I think I've done so.

[Ty_Webb]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

The point was simply to make you think. I think I've done so.

No doubt - and on your definitions, I agree. I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I have a tournament tomorrow. I'm going to try not to make any sixes and I'm going to try to be a little more mindful of my post-shot routine. I'm going to aim at the middle of the green (unless it's enormous or I'm close to it) and I'm going to see what happens. I'll report back :)

[Club Rat]

This has been a great read and it should hopefully enlighten many readers on the importance of Post Shot, which many obviously seldom consider.
An old saying "dance with the gal you bring to the dance" relates to a golfers
swing they are having on a present round. 

As an example a player would normally play a fade, but they have been hitting the ball better or not as well, but hitting it straight that day.
Using the Post Shot, could or should make them reconsider their club selection and target for that particular play and it could be a benefit.

Round pitfalls often occur when a player starts forcing or tries to manipulate a shot. When this happens, a Pre Shot often becomes second guessing or more often frustrating with a poor swing resulting in undesirable results.
Had the player recognized prior shots and results recognizing Post Shot could help them in these situations.

Given the poll was a choice was which is better, I feel they have equal importance.

 

[nevets88]

I'd say the pre shot routine helps you in the now, prevents the "unforced error", calms the nerves, maybe provides a kind of tempo, as much as one can have given one isn't waiting here and there. The post shot routine is the one that helps you in the long run, I always think to myself on bad shots what I might have done mechanically wrong or unforced errors like forgetting to check the wind or whoops, took out the wrong club on that one. Kind of assumed everyone does the post shot thing, guess not everyone is introspective. I definitely go through all my shots on the drive back, call it the post post shot assessment, come up with a game plan of what to work in the coming practice sessions. I suppose there is a delicate balance between assessing your shot, and forgetting a bad shot so as to think positively for the coming holes.

Googling "golf post shot routine" gets you this, totally forgot reading this in Sieckmann's book:

https://practical-golf.com/developing-a-post-shot-routine/

Also this:

https://ggga.com/2015/01/power-post-shot-routine/

[WUTiger]

Pre-shot. I start having trouble when I rush the pre-shot routine. This rushing comes from all the pressure "to play fast."

[bear996]

On 10/11/2017 at 5:27 PM, nevets88 said:

I'd say the pre shot routine helps you in the now, prevents the "unforced error", calms the nerves, maybe provides a kind of tempo, as much as one can have given one isn't waiting here and there. The post shot routine is the one that helps you in the long run, I always think to myself on bad shots what I might have done mechanically wrong or unforced errors like forgetting to check the wind or whoops, took out the wrong club on that one. Kind of assumed everyone does the post shot thing, guess not everyone is introspective. I definitely go through all my shots on the drive back, call it the post post shot assessment, come up with a game plan of what to work in the coming practice sessions. I suppose there is a delicate balance between assessing your shot, and forgetting a bad shot so as to think positively for the coming holes.

Googling "golf post shot routine" gets you this, totally forgot reading this in Sieckmann's book:

https://practical-golf.com/developing-a-post-shot-routine/

Also this:

https://ggga.com/2015/01/power-post-shot-routine/

I just read through that and thought that makes total sense to me.  Especially the "don't take it to the next shot" concept.  Just started playing, and I can be hot headed when things don't go my way, golf is teaching me in fact that it's not a game of perfect, and you have to learn and adjust as you go.  I'd say pre-shot is mighty important, but now I'm questioning whether I may find the post-shot a bit more important, especially for newer players who need to take time and evaluate every movement of their shots and the result, and how to correct/cement that technique.  

[Jack Watson]

Pre shot routine as it’s being called has proven critical to my own success over the last several years.

I am very specific in how I define it though.  To me it’s a procedure.  For all full swing shots the procedure is the same.

I do not include purposeless practice swings or a certain number of waggles or grabbing a pant leg in the procedure...that’s superstition and purposeless...a waste of time...

I don’t do practice swings except on putts and short game.

My PSR is just how I setup grip stance align and that. I always do it the same way.  Sure my alignment may differ depending on the situation but the procedure I use to define my start start line and setup is always the same.  This has helped me so much it’s unbelievable.  It gives my conscious mind tasks to accomplish just pre shot and then I can let go and swing when it’s time.  Nothing in my psr is purposeless.  I have constructed it carefully and it takes very little time.

I have no post shot routine.  It’s rare that I hit offline and am not immediately aware what happened.  I move straight into conversation or laugh or whatever.  It’s impossible to play a round for me in a zen like state of peak concentration during the whole time.  I put my concentration into the psr and shot and the rest of the time for the most part I let my mind wander wherever.

Post shot...I don’t care.  The shot is done.  I see no reason to have a post shot procedure.  I don’t analyze myself on course.  

Leave troubleshooting to the range or during a lesson.  I’ve had way better luck grinding it out just sticking to what I do.  I used to change swing thoughts and all when things were going poorly but anymore I have learned that is self defeating for me.  Conscious thought during the swing to me is mental energy divided and represents the mind unfocused from the swinging action.

If you don’t get it that’s fine.  It’s what works for me and it’s pretty much Ernest Jones Swinging into Golf.

Over the last couple years I have enjoyed golf so much more than I ever did doing it the hard way as Jones would call it.

My view is the shot has been played nothing you can do now but go find the ball and play from there.  Sounds silly but without making this huge change in mindset from say the 5L style I definitely would have quit golf.

I don’t practice and my game scores are staying the same now.

THANK YOU ERNEST JONES

[Patch]

I look at both as being very important, with just a slight nod to the pre-shot. 

The post shot gives the golfer information on the next shot. It's the cake part of the mix. The golfer is looking at what the previous shot has left for him, while moving to the ball. (next shot)

The pre-shot gets the golfer into swing position to use the info provided by the post shot view.  The pre-shot is the icing on  the cake part of the mix.

The pre-shot is also the start of of the golfer's swing consistency through out the round. A consistent swing equals consistent yardage with each club. 

Another thing the pre-shot helps with, is that it helps the golfer manage slower play. After a longer than normal wait, it gets the golfer in a better frame of mind to make another consistent swing. 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

I don’t practice and my game scores are staying the same now.

You're an 8. Some people want to improve.

Heck, I never really practiced and was a +1 all of last year. I want to get better.

Not sure what that has to do with the topic, of course, but…

[No Mulligans]

Pre-shot.  I have a priority piece that I'm thinking about and trying to pattern into my swing.

[Golfer gal]

pre-shot--

My handicap index has gone from 28 to 14.9 in the past 10 months, and I credit my pre-shot routine for that.  SMART choices, PRECISE set up, and a single swing thought.

My post-shot routine is mostly mental/emotional, briefly asking myself how that worked out for me.  Then moving on.

But to improve a lot more, I may need to do more analysis, or at least learn more feeling in my body of what just went on.