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iacas

The Importance of a Trouble Shot

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32 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Great shot, and a great point as well.  

I probably would've hit a little skanker through the same gap, but with a 5 or 6 iron, without attempting the draw.  Attempting to draw through that small window would increase the likelihood that I'd pull the shot and catch a tree.  The reward just isn't worth the risk of a really big number for me, at my skill level.  I like my chances of saving par from 40 yards short of the green though. 

I thought about this a bit more and because the opening is angled closer to the green, decided a straight punch would leave me with a pretty close wedge shot. 

When I try these shots it's usually from further out (>150 yds) and around a single obstacle, rarely through a gap that tight. It's usually an attempt to leave a much shorter approach shot, not roll it onto the green.

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8 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I thought about this a bit more and because the opening is angled closer to the green, decided a straight punch would leave me with a pretty close wedge shot. 

When I try these shots it's usually from further out (>150 yds) and around a single obstacle, rarely through a gap that tight. It's usually an attempt to leave a much shorter approach shot, not roll it onto the green.

This is what I answered originally as well, but for some reason my original post was deleted. Straight out to red is the best path. It looks just as risky to take the side shot anyway. I should know, I've been getting into this kind of crap a lot lately. I really hope that changes this weekend with straighter drives. . .

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The window looks big enough that I probably would have tried to slap a low 3I through it. 

That said, I'd also get ready to hit the deck because it looks like the sort of place a hacker like me might get a come-backer.

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20 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

The window looks big enough that I probably would have tried to slap a low 3I through it. 

That said, I'd also get ready to hit the deck because it looks like the sort of place a hacker like me might get a come-backer.

Pretty much. :-D

 

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1 hour ago, RussUK said:

As a high handicapper i know when to take my medicine and play the safe shot. For me its just a case of get it back on the fairway and hopfully end up with a bogey at worst.

I play with some high handicap golfers and its amazing how many times they go for the high tariff shot and end up with a triple. At the end of the day you need to know what you can pull off at your skill level. If you can low hook through the trees then go for it if you cant then dont.

I always say to myself "If in doubt, easy way out"

Yup this is me.  Punch it out with a 6 Iron to about 50 yards short of the pin, a distance I practice, and wedge it up and hope for a one putt par but for sure take a double off the table.

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3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I think my choice would have been a low running shot through the larger (red line) gap.  I'm not sure, but I probably would have used a less lofted club, something like a 5 or 7-iron, to be sure I was under all the limbs.  I know that when I play the ball back in my stance, it tends to hook a bit more, so that would fit.  The goal would be between the two traps right in front, perfect would be like yours, on the green, and poor would probably be too firm and straight, ending up in the bunker, which makes bogey still probable.  

+1. That's what I would have done, and have many times. Right or wrong, more often than not I use a very low lofted iron and the "low screamer" through the opening that advances the ball most AND I believe I can hit to get away from lots of trees in the rough. In the OP's example, I would have just punched straight thru the red line opening, I don't have the skills to expect a reliable draw. Sometimes I can reach a green, usually not. I always move the ball forward as much as possible leaving some decent next shot, and only "chip out" when I am essentially forced to. I wish I had the skills to pull off the shot the OP did - I never have and probably never will.

Edited by Midpack

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Like above low runner and get it on the ground so that if it doesn't draw it stops before OB and bad news happens.  Prob 7 iron or so, back of stance and try to draw it up near front of green and try for up and down.  more like a chipping motion for me.  If I try to "hood" things I end up hitting it about as pure as I can and straight where the trouble is.. lol

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2 hours ago, DeadMan said:

But in thinking about it more, I think I have roughly an equal chance of saving par from short of the bunker in the fairway and from the bunker.

Your odds are almost surely better from the fairway than in the bunker.

2 hours ago, RussUK said:

As a high handicapper i know when to take my medicine and play the safe shot. For me its just a case of get it back on the fairway and hopfully end up with a bogey at worst.

No, that's what the topic is about: even higher handicappers should punch a ball through the gap, with enough to get past the trees and ideally stay short of the bunker. Think of it as a 25-yard chip shot through a fairly (at that distance) large window.

2 hours ago, RussUK said:

I play with some high handicap golfers and its amazing how many times they go for the high tariff shot and end up with a triple.

This isn't one of those. The window is relatively large at only 15-20 yards.

2 hours ago, RussUK said:

If you can low hook through the trees then go for it if you cant then dont.

I always say to myself "If in doubt, easy way out"

You're costing yourself strokes. Every shot has a ton of options. Not just "super risky" or "ultra safe."

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

This is what I answered originally as well, but for some reason my original post was deleted. Straight out to red is the best path. It looks just as risky to take the side shot anyway. I should know, I've been getting into this kind of crap a lot lately. I really hope that changes this weekend with straighter drives. . .

Your first post made very little sense @Lihu and was going to potentially derail the topic right off the bat. You'll have to trust me on that.

2 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

The window looks big enough that I probably would have tried to slap a low 3I through it. 

A 3I would probably hit the hill/slope about halfway up.

Is everyone not seeing that it's a hill there?

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16 minutes ago, iacas said:

Your odds are almost surely better from the fairway than in the bunker.

I think it's pretty close. It's hard to tell 100% from what you posted. To stay short of the bunker, it looks like you leave yourself with about a 30-50 yard pitch shot. If you're in the bunker, you probably have between a 10-20 yard bunker shot. For me, that's about equal odds of getting up and down. I.e., pretty rarely. I'm bad from bunkers but I'm also bad with a 50 yard pitch. That's also not including the possibility that I get it onto the green from the trees with the shot that brings the bunker into play.

My answer changes, though, if I can be 30 yards or closer with the pitch or if I could end up with a 20+ yard bunker shot.

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1 minute ago, DeadMan said:

I think it's pretty close. It's hard to tell 100% from what you posted. To stay short of the bunker, it looks like you leave yourself with about a 30-50 yard pitch shot. If you're in the bunker, you probably have between a 10-20 yard bunker shot.

You don't have an equal chance from the bunker as you do from the fairway short of the bunker:

Screen%20Shot%202017-10-12%20at%2012.33.

The difference is 35 yards (bunker) vs. 52 yards (fairway). You're much better off in the fairway.

4 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

My answer changes, though, if I can be 30 yards or closer with the pitch or if I could end up with a 20+ yard bunker shot.

You're not getting to within 10 yards on that bunker shot. The bunker lip to the hole location is 21 yards.

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Question for @iacas

Why did you use a 9? Sure it's up a slight hill, but slapping a 5 or 6 up there would get up high enough, plus you'd go a lot farther if you catch it fat, which for me would be likely considering it's hooded and the leading edge is exposed with zero bounce. Isn't it also easier to curve a lower lofted club than a higher lofted one?

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22 minutes ago, iacas said:

You don't have an equal chance from the bunker as you do from the fairway short of the bunker:

Screen%20Shot%202017-10-12%20at%2012.33.

The difference is 35 yards (bunker) vs. 52 yards (fairway). You're much better off in the fairway.

You're not getting to within 10 yards on that bunker shot. The bunker lip to the hole location is 21 yards.

Ah, okay. Then yeah, I'm going to hit a straight punch shot to finish in front of that bunker. If I need a par for whatever reason, then I'll try the low hook.

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

Your first post made very little sense @Lihu and was going to potentially derail the topic right off the bat. You'll have to trust me on that.

Ah, makes sense.

I can see that it makes little sense. My reasons are somewhat based on instinct at this point, because don't really use too much conscious thought with my shot zones any more. It's turned into a feel thing for me. Trust me, I see more trees than everyone on this site. Each round involves >15 tree trimming episodes off the tee and at least 10 of those end up with shots past/through/around a tree(s), shot zones are ingrained within my pre-shot routine. :-D

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23 hours ago, iacas said:

What about you? What would you do?

Based on the elevation change (which is hard to discern how much there is from the photo), probably a 6 or 7i and try to draw it.

I think if you are a creative player, these types of shots are very fun and while I don't like putting myself in these situations, I really enjoy trying to get out and making a shot of it. Nothing is sadder than pitching out 15 yards sideways into the fairway.

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I would've played it the same way as @iacas other than I may have played an 8-iron if it was a back pin and the 9 for a front pin.  A hooded 7, 8 or 9 iron is my go to shot for getting out of trouble when you want to hit a nice hook.

Edited by jsgolfer

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Same line, but a lower lofted iron.  But that means I likely couldn't turn it as much.  (perhaps it's an indication I should practice hooded shots)

fun shot - getting into trouble just means the chance to try fun shots

 

I'd also accept the following:

2017-10-12 15_55_45-The Importance of a Trouble Shot - Swing Thoughts - The Sand Trap .com.jpg

What, too risky?

Edited by rehmwa

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3 hours ago, colin007 said:

Question for @iacas

Why did you use a 9? Sure it's up a slight hill, but slapping a 5 or 6 up there would get up high enough, plus you'd go a lot farther if you catch it fat, which for me would be likely considering it's hooded and the leading edge is exposed with zero bounce. Isn't it also easier to curve a lower lofted club than a higher lofted one?

Because I wanted to get up the hill, and hook it, and by playing the ball back in my stance I could do both.

Hitting a shot like this too low makes judging the flight distance far trickier because the landing angle is so much flatter.

trajectories.png

A 15% change in power changes the landing location and makes the runout far more difficult to predict than a higher lofted shot.

2 hours ago, billchao said:

I see it as slightly uphill. Is it steeper than it looks in the picture?

You can't see the green, or the mound behind the green, or even the base of the trees that are farther up the hill and right of the green… and that's a photo taken from eye level. It's probably 15' uphill over the 15-20 yards.

6 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

Same line, but a lower lofted iron.  But that means I likely couldn't turn it as much.

The opposite is true: less loft makes it easier to tilt the spin axis.

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