Par 5 Strategy in a Mike Malaska Video... Do you agree?

[Hacker James]

24 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

Ive read before of golfers that could benefit from thinking less of the ball and instead of external things like targets or how the clubheqd moves.

"waggle with a purpose".  "Shot rehearsal".  I liked the video rendition of how your "brain don't know don't"  Think of what you "want" to do, not what to avoid.  Then there is Zen. 

[JonMA1]

On 12/1/2017 at 9:33 AM, saevel25 said:

I think it's beneficial to try to advance the ball as far as possible. The issue is, as soon as you stop using a driver, it requires the golfer to hit longer irons for their approach shots, and even lay ups.

On a 450 yard hole, with a golfer who hits the ball 225 yards. They are left with the following from the hole on their drive + 2nd shot;

Driver + 8 iron = 105 from green
Hybrid + Hybrid = 105 from green
Driver + Hybrid = 50 yards from green

Two really good hybrid shots get them the same distance from the green as a Driver + 8 iron. Driver + 8 iron is probably a layup shot from the rough. Driver + hybrid gets them pretty close if they end up in the fairway. Heck, even a punch out shot with a 5 iron can go 110-115 yards. That can get them to 110 yards from the green. Even if they are in a typical tough shot they have a shot at getting as close as a hybrid + hybrid.

A little off topic but your post reminded me of this 450 yard par 5 from yesterday's round. I hit a decent drive right down the middle and was rewarded with a 2nd shot from out of the bunker... an 8i which I duffed of course. It left me something like 170 (a 4i) to a very tight green on a day when I couldn't hit a long iron to save my life. The round was going so badly at this point I almost said "screw it" and pulled the 4i. Instead, I laid up in front of the marsh, then hit a gap wedge in close and parred the hole.

A bit more on topic, this might be one of those holes where, unless you can carry the bunker with a driver, a shorter club off the tee might be a viable option.

The problem with that way of thinking is a shorter club doesn't guarantee a good shot. Land a tee shot too far behind that bunker and you'll need a fairway wood or hybrid on your 2nd shot to leave a short approach (as you described above @saevel25).

I almost always use a driver on this hole because the fairway is so wide and because I don't always fail at fairway bunkers. Even a shortish or wayward drive allows me to use an iron for my second shot. 

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

A bit more on topic, this might be one of those holes where, unless you can carry the bunker with a driver, a shorter club off the tee might be a viable option.

The fairway is 40 yards wide to the right of that bunker. That's the play. 277 to carry from some of the normal tees is not the play.

[JonMA1]

15 minutes ago, iacas said:

The fairway is 40 yards wide to the right of that bunker. That's the play. 277 to carry from some of the normal tees is not the play.

Are you saying that because it's the only location you'd have a chance to try for the green in two? If so, I agree (not that I'd know what it's like to try an approach shot from 200+ yds to this green ).

Even for those of us who are satisfied to get there in three, that's a good spot for a drive. However, if you get too close to the trees on the right (the bunker is on a hill), your second shot to layup becomes a trouble shot that has to curve left to right.

[p1n9183]

Voted no, but it´s a shot by shot decition. (not a hole by hole)

You need to advance the ball safely as far as you can, it doesn´t matter if you can reach in 2 the green or not.
With that you get shorter shots to the green and shorter lay up shots. Been longer => been more accurate with your next shot.  

 

[MacDutch]

I don’t agree with the advice given in the vid. Even on a par 5  (or 4) where there is water at 200y I use a driver. Just a short gripped halve swing with driver is more save for me than a 3 or 5 wood.

[Marty2019]

I voted the 3rd option.  It depends on how accurate you can be with the driver or something else. 

I think for most people, they should make a strategic choice based on how they far they hit, and how well they control, their various clubs. 

I use a driver always, every time I can, because for me it is a much more reliable club than a 5-wood off the tee, which is my next longest club. 

 

Edited December 6, 2017 by Marty2019

[Zeph]

One reason I want to go as long as possible is that I want to get better and lower my handicap. I could probably play reasonably well around a 15-20 handicap if I played short and safe all the way, but I wouldn't get anywhere. You can't expect to get lower and shooting pars and birdies if you got a lot of long approach shots.

Using driver on a par five is for most people usually not about reaching the green in two shots. It's about getting the second shot closer to the green, giving you a shorter and easier approach shot.

On 11/30/2017 at 6:16 PM, billchao said:

In general, no. I agree with @klineka here:

Obviously you don't want to automatically pull driver on every par 5, either, but that's where individual shot zones come into play. People who come up with these types of ultra-conservative strategies overstate the value of being in the fairway and underestimate the importance of proximity.

It is the most forgiving club in the bag. You can mis-hits a driver a farther distance from the sweetspot than you can with any other club and still get a decent result.

I started experimenting with a 3/4 driver swing late in the season and I find it to be a better option than a full hybrid or even a 3W.

It is the most forgiving, but for many it's also the one losing you most strokes. I don't care how large sweetspot my driver got, if I send it out there in a wrong direction, I might as well find a new ball from my bag right away.

Being the club you hit the farthest, it is also the club you can miss the worst with. You swing at it hard, it's a long club (less control) and a few degrees wrong at impact can cost you a couple of shots.

I'm a fan of playing long, but I understand everyone not having the driver as their favorite club and generally avoid using it. There is no other club in my bag that I've lost more balls with than the driver.

A shorter driver swing as an alternative to a full 3 wood is a nice touch and one that I've used myself. Especially choking up on the handle to avoid the worst results.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Zeph

[Patch]

I niether agree, nor disagree with his opinion. I voted the 3rd choice. There are alot of different golfers out there. Not only is it a hole by hole decision, it's also a golfer by golfer decision, talent wise. 

These days it's pretty much impossible for me to reach 5vers in 2. Even the longer 4s are are a stretch. Driver/3W for me is probably <450 yards for me, and that's on a good day, with favorable course conditions. 

[Golfingdad]

On 11/30/2017 at 8:56 AM, cutchemist42 said:

Watched a video of a playing vlog that had Mike Milaska, and he was discussing par5 strategies.

He said he felt most would benefit from putting the driver away, IF they know their Avg. Driver+Avg. 3-Wood/Hybrid would not give them a realistic chance of reaching the green in 2 shots. He said this way, you avoid the club that might give you penalties or a bad position for your 2nd shot.

Is this a sound way to view par5s?

I voted "has merit, but hole-by-hole" because I put some weight in whether or not there is a possibility of reaching in two when making my decisions.  As an example, take a hole like Torrey Pines South #18; a par 5 that is about 525 yards from the tees I'm most likely to play.  A perfect booming drive would put me in a position to reach in two with a 3 wood or hybrid, however, there is a large pond fronting the green, so there is no chance I'm going to be trying to hit a 220-240 yard long club like that over water.  It's always going to be a 3 shot hole and I'm never going to try and go further than about 445 in two, because that's close to where the pond starts.  Considering that there are fairway bunkers starting at about 250 or so on both sides of the fairway, perhaps its a better decision to lay up short of those so I have a better chance of getting close to that 445 mark than if I were to find one of those bunkers and have to chunk out and have a longer third over the pond.

On the other hand, if there was no pond, then I don't care as much about risking a longer third shot and I will absolutely hit the second shot as far as possible, so I'm definitely hitting driver there.

So there are definitely times where less than driver is prudent on par 5's, but not simply because it might go further astray than a 3 wood like he's suggesting.