2018 Masters Tournament Discussion Topic

[iacas]

Just now, nevets88 said:

I wonder if the uptick in ratings had something to do with all those final round videos available free on YouTube. It's like a tv show with an upcoming new season that makes its previous season available months before. Once you refresh yourself, you're more likely to watch the new season.

I imagine that had ZERO effect at all.

I think the slight uptick was that Tiger was playing, Phil were doing well, and the leaderboard was pretty good.

The Masters YouTube channel is for the hard-core golf fan. They are gonna watch The Masters anyway.

[MuniGrit]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

T14 Strokes Gained: Putting = Dustin Johnson

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02564.html

He won the Tournament of Champions.

Golf isn't played in a vacuum. I know you guys want to play the game from spread sheets and stats but there are some flaws in that method. For example I'm a quarter inch off the green on a huge green and the rules official when I call him over to confirm says I'm off the green. I'm 100 feet from the pin and use my putter and put it to tap in. I get no credit for that since I'm technically not putting.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

Golf isn't played in a vacuum. I know you guys want to play the game from spread sheets and stats but there are some flaws in that method. For example I'm a quarter inch off the green on a huge green and the rules official when I call him over to confirm says I'm off the green. I'm 100 feet from the pin and use my putter and put it to tap in. I get no credit for that since I'm technically not putting.

None of what you said invalidates in any way, or even puts a little dent in, the statistics cited in today's discussion.

Statistics, used properly, illuminate. They demonstrate things that "your eyes" or "the media" can get wrong.

[klineka]

5 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

Golf isn't played in a vacuum. I know you guys want to play the game from spread sheets and stats but there are some flaws in that method. For example I'm a quarter inch off the green on a huge green and the rules official when I call him over to confirm says I'm off the green. I'm 100 feet from the pin and use my putter and put it to tap in. I get no credit for that since I'm technically not putting.

What's flawed about the fact that DJ has only 3 putted 5 times out of more than 400 holes this season? Do you really think he faces the circumstance you referenced often enough to dramatically shift the stats?

[b101]

We've also not yet mentioned that Dustin's wedge game is also incredibly good - comfortably the best improvement that he made in the year he 'broke through' at Oakmont:

https://www.cbssports.com/golf/news/one-stat-that-explains-dustin-johnsons-success-on-the-2016-pga-tour/

Edited April 9, 2018 by b101

[JSGolf]

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/23091216/masters-2018-3-miles-away-patrick-reed-family-wept-watched-win?sf186578588=1

Edited April 9, 2018 by JSGolf

[MuniGrit]

31 minutes ago, klineka said:

What's flawed about the fact that DJ has only 3 putted 5 times out of more than 400 holes this season? Do you really think he faces the circumstance you referenced often enough to dramatically shift the stats?

That is just one of the many examples where there are holes in the stats. Stats can be skewed anyway to fit a narrative. Yes pros hit many good shots that turn into the nGIR where they use putter but doesn't count in the stats. I get it people want to make the game playable from spread sheets and not in the dirt.

[GrandStranded]

13 minutes ago, JSGolf said:

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/23091216/masters-2018-3-miles-away-patrick-reed-family-wept-watched-win?sf186578588=1

The fact that the family is helping the media with these stories is a turn off to me. Reed isn't bring them up. They're playing the victims now.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited April 9, 2018 by GrandStranded

[klineka]

12 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

That is just one of the many examples where there are holes in the stats. Stats can be skewed anyway to fit a narrative. Yes pros hit many good shots that turn into the nGIR where they use putter but doesn't count in the stats. I get it people want to make the game playable from spread sheets and not in the dirt.

The regardless of how many nGIR and fringe putts DJ has had this year, the fact still remains, he is an above average putter on the PGA tour this year.

[b101]

4 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

The fact that the family is helping the media with these stories is a turn off to me. Reed isn't bring them up. They're playing the victims now.

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Agree with this entirely.

[MuniGrit]

4 minutes ago, klineka said:

The regardless of how many nGIR and fringe putts DJ has had this year, the fact still remains, he is an above average putter on the PGA tour this year.

He is an excellent lag putter for sure. You hear the same thing about Bubba too. Bubba is a great lag putter too.

[nevets88]

Didn't catch Finau on tv unfortunately, read about his modified swing to keep weight off ankle, here it is up close, no weight transfer and he shot 6 under. Crazy.

 

[3jacker]

1 hour ago, GrandStranded said:

The fact that the family is helping the media with these stories is a turn off to me. Reed isn't bring them up. They're playing the victims now.

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Maybe.  If they have always looked at him as meal ticket, that would make sense.  It would also make sense if they are heartbroken and hoping that his might change his outlook.

Who knows.  Folks is crazy.

[DeadMan]

1 hour ago, GrandStranded said:

The fact that the family is helping the media with these stories is a turn off to me. Reed isn't bring them up. They're playing the victims now.

 

I was actually having a similar thought. I've read two articles now where they're out talking to journalists. With what Reed's wife has said in the past, I'm getting an emotionally abusive vibe from his parents. I don't really blame the journalists for getting these stories, but they should be aware how self-serving these stories are for his parents. The articles are a massive guilt fest and really make his parents seem sympathetic. That's not the whole story.

[GrandStranded]

14 minutes ago, 3jacker said:

Maybe.  If they have always looked at him as meal ticket, that would make sense.  It would also make sense if they are heartbroken and hoping that his might change his outlook.

Who knows.  Folks is crazy.

I get what you're saying, and I'm sure deep down his mom, dad, and sister love him. But why do this now, and thru the media. I'm sorry for all of them. I can't imagine being estranged from my family. I just don't understand his family doing what they're doing right now if they want to fix things.

Edited April 9, 2018 by GrandStranded

[turtleback]

21 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

Since I'm feeling feisty today another argument I don't get in this thread is the "athletes in every sport are better, so why not the Golfers?" One of the comparisons argued was Jesse Owens and Usian(?) Bolt. But golf is different then a lot of sports. I get the athleticism needed to compete at the tour level. But if you take 2 five year old identical twins, and trained one every day with top level instruction for 15 years, unless he was born fast or with the proper body type, he's never going to become a world class sprinter or miler. But if you took his twin, and trained him to play golf the same way, he'd have a much greater chance to be a world class golfer.

I think this is more of an issue for those who are looking at absolute level of play.  Sure, today's milers are better, in absolute terms, than Roger Bannister.  But personally, I look more at relative separation - a reason that I don't put as big an emphasis on the strength of field issue.  Although I do put some emphasis on the distribution of field issue.  But it is all about degree of dominance over a sufficiently long period, for me.

This is also why the equipment issue is so funny, to me.  Tiger was, arguably, at his MOST dominant early in his career when the equipment he was using wasn't much different than the equipment Jack used for his whole career.  He didn't start using big titanium heads and graphite shafts until later.  

1 hour ago, JSGolf said:

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/23091216/masters-2018-3-miles-away-patrick-reed-family-wept-watched-win?sf186578588=1

Outside of Patrick and his family, the thing that struck me about this article was the utter narcissism of the reporter in the first two paragraphs:

Quote

Patrick Reed's father was crying on the phone. I was crying on the phone. We both had good reasons.

Bill Reed's son had just won the Masters, and he wanted to give him a hug. My mother died far too young years ago, and I wanted to give her a hug

What does his mother dying young years ago have to do with this story?  Does everything have to start with validating a quasi-victim entitlement?

[Dr. Manhattan]

Reed has had a great month and he is now #11 in the rankings. Maybe he will live up to his Top 5 proclamation very soon.

• Valspar - 2nd
• Bay Hill - 7th
• Match Play - 9th
• Masters - 1st

 

[DeadMan]

49 minutes ago, GrandStranded said:

I can't imagine being estranged from my family. I just don't understand his family doing what they're doing right now if they want to fix things.

OT:

There are absolutely situations where you should be estranged from your family (any kind of abuse, specifically) and there is no reason to even try to fix it. I don't know if Reed's situation is abusive or not. I'm just saying that you should be a little careful when you say that you shouldn't push your family away.