Is Phil Mickelson Going Nuts?: Hitting a moving ball at US Open

[iacas]

Just now, fishgolf said:

Oh come on now @iacasyour post #204 certainly suggested that.

Not at all. I said the ambiguity is still there. And if you look at 11.2 and 10.2, neither say "DQ."

Just now, fishgolf said:

And since this thread is all about rules, it's kind of hard to stay clear of that.

No, it's not. It's about Phil. Again, it's in Tour Talk, not Rules of Golf.

Just now, fishgolf said:

I'm trying to discuss how a change to the rules would be more fair and less subjective should this ever happen again.

Start a new topic in the appropriate forum, please.

[fishgolf]

33 minutes ago, iacas said:

Not at all. I said the ambiguity is still there. And if you look at 11.2 and 10.2, neither say "DQ."

And that's my point, they should.

 

34 minutes ago, iacas said:

No, it's not. It's about Phil. Again, it's in Tour Talk, not Rules of Golf.

His action violated rules.  That results in interpretation and application of the rules.  How is that not germane to the topic?  How is it any less relevant than bring up his integrity?

[Vinsk]

19 minutes ago, fishgolf said:

That results in interpretation and application of the rules.

Yes but not here. This is to discuss Phil’s actions, ideology, impact of his decision, etc. 

[Buckeyebowman]

23 hours ago, iacas said:

Kirk Triplett stopped the ball and would have been DQed except he missed the cut and they just didn’t write him down as a DQ.

There was a video segment on it.

That was something else the pro said. Not about Triplett just stopping the ball, but he said that if Mickelson would have done something similar, stopped the ball, marked it, and proceeded to put from there, he probably would have been DQ'd.

I also heard another interesting take on the radio that day. Could it be that Phil was sending the USGA a little message? Let's face it, Saturday afternoon was not much fun to watch! It was pretty dismal golf, and everyone could understand the reason why!

Could he have been saying, "Hey, USGA! Enough already!" Shades of Payne Stuart putting up the green at Riviera, only to have the ball turn right in front of the hole and roll back to his feet!

I've actually had that happen on a public course! And I can't describe just how pissed I was!

[Shorty]

11 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Could it be that Phil was sending the USGA a little message? Let's face it, Saturday afternoon was not much fun to watch!

I don't think there was a lot of focus on Phil at that point. He's not that stupid. If it was a message, it had already been received and he didn't need to trash his own reputation to repeat it.

[turtleback]

3 hours ago, Chris223 said:

Sorry I can’t help but laugh at the fact that everyone is still arguing like children in here and its resulting in what?  Continue, I’m gonna go discuss more relevant topics elsewhere on the forum, you seem to have an answer for everything.

You just can't help yourself, can you?

I just hope you don't end up playing the "What difference – at this point, what difference does it make?" card.  LOL

1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

That was something else the pro said. Not about Triplett just stopping the ball, but he said that if Mickelson would have done something similar, stopped the ball, marked it, and proceeded to put from there, he probably would have been DQ'd.

I also heard another interesting take on the radio that day. Could it be that Phil was sending the USGA a little message? Let's face it, Saturday afternoon was not much fun to watch! It was pretty dismal golf, and everyone could understand the reason why!

Could he have been saying, "Hey, USGA! Enough already!" Shades of Payne Stuart putting up the green at Riviera, only to have the ball turn right in front of the hole and roll back to his feet!

I've actually had that happen on a public course! And I can't describe just how pissed I was!

The problem with this 'message' theory is that it is contradicted by every (lying) word that came out of his mouth, afterwards.

Jack would have loved anyone feeling they had a message to send.  He always said that during a major, when he heard someone grumbling about the course, he always figured that THAT was someone he didn't have to worry about, that week.

[Aguirre]

Who cares? I mean, I like this forum but if somebody who didn't know anything about golf asked why Group A hates golf while Group B loves it, I'd just point them to this thread right here.

I thought Mickelson's actions were hilarious. The USGA can go f*** themselves. As far as I can tell Mickelson should have been disqualified. Again, who cares? Disqualify him. Don't disqualify him. Doesn't matter. It's not as if he was in contention. If some poor privileged white guy can't upgrade his SUV next year to the Asian Hand Job Nanny version, what do I care.

DO NOT LOSE CONTROL OF YOUR COURSE IN SEARCH OF A NUMBER.

And, Phil, just own what you did. It's fine to own what you did. A big old f*** you to the USGA is an appropriate response.

[turtleback]

1 hour ago, Aguirre said:

Who cares? I mean, I like this forum but if somebody who didn't know anything about golf asked why Group A hates golf while Group B loves it, I'd just point them to this thread right here.

I thought Mickelson's actions were hilarious. The USGA can go f*** themselves. As far as I can tell Mickelson should have been disqualified. Again, who cares? Disqualify him. Don't disqualify him. Doesn't matter. It's not as if he was in contention. If some poor privileged white guy can't upgrade his SUV next year to the Asian Hand Job Nanny version, what do I care.

DO NOT LOSE CONTROL OF YOUR COURSE IN SEARCH OF A NUMBER.

And, Phil, just own what you did. It's fine to own what you did. A big old f*** you to the USGA is an appropriate response.

While I don't fully agree with the sentiment you espouse, I kind of admire the passion and eloquence with which you present it.  

Edited June 20, 2018 by turtleback

[iacas]

7 hours ago, turtleback said:

Jack would have loved anyone feeling they had a message to send.  He always said that during a major, when he heard someone grumbling about the course, he always figured that THAT was someone he didn't have to worry about, that week.

It’s OT but Brooks had the same approach.

@Aguirre many people care, clearly. Not a ton, but enough to discuss it here.

[boogielicious]

12 hours ago, Chris223 said:

Sorry I can’t help but laugh at the fact that everyone is still arguing like children in here and its resulting in what?  Continue, I’m gonna go discuss more relevant topics elsewhere on the forum, you seem to have an answer for everything.

He is responding to your constant barrage of hyperbole. That is what a discussion forum is all about. 

11 hours ago, fishgolf said:

Oh come on now @iacasyour post #204 certainly suggested that.  And since this thread is all about rules, it's kind of hard to stay clear of that.  I'm trying to discuss how a change to the rules would be more fair and less subjective should this ever happen again.  Do you want to discuss that or just continue to express your opinion of Phil's integrity, whether he deflected or stroked the ball, is on your player shit list, etc.? 

Please start a topic on this in the Rules section if you would like.

5 hours ago, Aguirre said:

Who cares? I mean, I like this forum but if somebody who didn't know anything about golf asked why Group A hates golf while Group B loves it, I'd just point them to this thread right here.

I thought Mickelson's actions were hilarious. The USGA can go f*** themselves. As far as I can tell Mickelson should have been disqualified. Again, who cares? Disqualify him. Don't disqualify him. Doesn't matter. It's not as if he was in contention. If some poor privileged white guy can't upgrade his SUV next year to the Asian Hand Job Nanny version, what do I care.

DO NOT LOSE CONTROL OF YOUR COURSE IN SEARCH OF A NUMBER.

And, Phil, just own what you did. It's fine to own what you did. A big old f*** you to the USGA is an appropriate response.

You obviously care enough to comment. Course conditions are being discussed in the US Open thread, so it is really not relevant here. However, the other 150+ players in the tournament did not express disdain for the course conditions by intentionally hitting a moving ball and then acting arrogant about it. Some squawked to the media, but most just "Played the course as they found it."

Phil's actions were childish and not befitting a player of his accomplishments. It is appropriate that passionate golf fans, like yourself and the rest of us on this forum, want to discuss it.

[GrandStranded]

I'd have a lot more respect for Phil if he had just DQ'ed himself on the spot, then came into the press tent and vented whatever frustrations he had. As far as the USGA, I think they come off at least as bad as Phil here. My beef with Phil is his stubborn refusal to admit his actions were wrong, and that he lost his composure. The USGA came off as being afraid to discipline a star player, probably thinking a DQ would bring even more attention to their ridiculous hole setups on Saturday. I have to admit though, I enjoy watching them screwup their flagship event, and the annual Mike Davis mea culpa tour. They lost me with the "putter anchoring" decision. I never used a long putter, but the ban seemed unnecessary and petty to me, and I haven't renewed membership since.

[boogielicious]

1 minute ago, GrandStranded said:

I'd have a lot more respect for Phil if he had just DQ'ed himself on the spot, then came into the press tent and vented whatever frustrations he had. As far as the USGA, I think they come off at least as bad as Phil here. My beef with Phil is his stubborn refusal to admit his actions were wrong, and that he lost his composure. The USGA came off as being afraid to discipline a star player, probably thinking a DQ would bring even more attention to their ridiculous hole setups on Saturday. I have to admit though, I enjoy watching them screwup their flagship event, and the annual Mike Davis mea culpa tour. They lost me with the "putter anchoring" decision. I never used a long putter, but the ban seemed unnecessary and petty to me, and I haven't renewed membership since.

I like the first part of your post. And while the USGA may have erred on a couple of pin placements, I don't think the course conditions warranted his behavior. No one else did this. I liked the US Open being very hard.

[GrandStranded]

3 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I like the first part of your post. And while the USGA may have erred on a couple of pin placements, I don't think the course conditions warranted his behavior. No one else did this. I liked the US Open being very hard.

I do too. Maybe I should've been more clear about Phil. I don't condone his actions at all. If he had withdrawn after his round, and just said something along the lines of "I just lost it for a moment, I was wrong doing what I did..." myself and most people would've understood and forgave him for what he did. Him playing Sunday left a bad taste in my mouth, I lost respect for him, and my feelings toward the USGA were confirmed by them allowing him to do so.

[Elmer]

3 hours ago, GrandStranded said:

I'd have a lot more respect for Phil if he had just DQ'ed himself on the spot, then came into the press tent and vented whatever frustrations he had. As far as the USGA, I think they come off at least as bad as Phil here. My beef with Phil is his stubborn refusal to admit his actions were wrong, and that he lost his composure. The USGA came off as being afraid to discipline a star player, probably thinking a DQ would bring even more attention to their ridiculous hole setups on Saturday. I have to admit though, I enjoy watching them screwup their flagship event, and the annual Mike Davis mea culpa tour. They lost me with the "putter anchoring" decision. I never used a long putter, but the ban seemed unnecessary and petty to me, and I haven't renewed membership since.

But then we would have 118 posts about Phil having quit!
And 111 posts about how Phil disrespected the game by not finishing the round.

[GrandStranded]

2 minutes ago, Elmer said:

But then we would have 118 posts about Phil having quit!
And 111 posts about how Phil disrespected the game by not finishing the round.

True, but I'd rather a player admit he lost his cool for a moment, own up to his action, and accept the consequence. His statement afterward, then playing the next day, combined with the USGA rules dance around the issue have made it even worse.

[iacas]

Too little, too late IMO, but Phil apologized:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/phil-mickelson-says-hes-embarrassed-and-disappointed-apologizes-for-moving-ball-incident-at-us-open

I say "too little too late" because, again, his first reaction was to lie to people. And this feels like, upon seeing how much damage his "brand" is taking, he's trying to stop the bleeding.

Whatever.

[JonMA1]

31 minutes ago, iacas said:

And this feels like, upon seeing how much damage his "brand" is taking, he's trying to stop the bleeding.

Probably a lot of truth to the quote above. 

As a fan, the apology works for me. Again, not that it matters what I think. He's an imperfect pro athlete and this is preferable to just continuing his denial.

(See Lexi... not that difficult.)

[iacas]

Just now, JonMA1 said:

(See Lexi... not that difficult.)

Seriously. It's too little too late for me re: Phil, but she is still beating that drum.