Proximity to the Hole and Separating Short Game and Putting Skills

[billchao]

I've been thinking lately about the short game and putting, specifically proximity to the hole from around the green. I don't actually know how close I should be getting to the hole at my skill level. Game Golf tells me I'm 97% < 5 yards within 25 yards (I wish they would break this down more), but let's say I average 12' from the hole. A PGA Tour pro makes ~30% of those putts. A Tour-level putter I most certainly am not; I might make < 10% of my 12' putts.

I'm not scrambling at the rate I should be and I don't know if the problem is with my short game or my putting. If I don't hit it within 5-6', I don't have a realistic expectation of making the putt. I'd bet that means I'm 50% from about that distance. I know I have room for improvement in putting. My short game has gotten better to the point where I feel like I'm hitting the ball consistently well but I'm misjudging what it's going to do when it hits the green, so I feel like I could get it closer more often.

So where's the point of diminishing returns? Do I spend more time on the short game and try to get the ball closer, or do I work on my putting and try to increase that make %? Is it even reasonable (for me) to expect to be within 12' from nGIR, or to make 25% of 12' putts? Given limited resources (time), what priority is going to affect scores the most?

[Patch]

I live, and die, score wise, on my short game. When it's on, I can scare the hell out breaking 80. 

One thing I never do is compare my percentages to those the pro tour guys have. Their game is way, way better than mine. So much better, I consider them playing a different game than I do. 

Practice wise, I practice what I see in my own game, that needs improvement, when ever I can.  "My own averages" tell me what I need to work on. 

One of my more important practice regimes is reading greens before my approach shots. I need some idea what the ball might do after it lands on the green. Just landing the ball on the green some where does not work well for me. When I was a newby, just landing on the green some where was Paramount. Not so anymore. Over the years, I graduated to something more precise. If that pre-approach shot read gets me a shorter first putt, I am happy. Obviously the closer to the green I am, the more accurate that read becomes. 

I have a vague average of what my first putts are. I don't have an actual number of feet average, but just a visual distance average. That visual distance, (+/-) is what I practice. 

As for practice time constraints, that's up to the individual on what they should work on during the time allowed. Perhaps combining to separate practices into one to save time will work better. Example might be instead of separate pitching, and putting practice, combine the two in one practice session. I  I do this alot. Obviously I don't hit a high number pitches only, or putts. I just look at putts as being a continuation of the pitch, or chip that put me in putting mode. 

My golfing motto is that every shot should make the next shot easier. It's a continuation process for me, and is pretty much my entire mental game. 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Patch

[Club Rat]

52 minutes ago, billchao said:

Do I spend more time on the short game and try to get the ball closer, or do I work on my putting and try to increase that make %? Is it even reasonable (for me) to expect to be within 12' from nGIR, or to make 25% of 12' putts? Given limited resources (time), what priority is going to affect scores the most?

I would say yes to both.
I wrote a spreadsheet to enter stats from GG which indicated my trends and was great for realizing areas which are weak and good.
I have all the data of putts made and missed from less than 20 ft along with distance of all approach shots inside 100 yards.
I created graphs to show All rounds, past 20 rds, and recent 10 rds for showing my trends. 
Also, @RandallT has a program where he has done Analysis for a few guys.
 

[Shindig]

When I practice short game (scoring, not mechanics), I use the drill from LSW that says a good proximity is handicap-in-feet.  I don't know if that's something I should be satisfied with though or not... especially since my putting isn't so hot either. 

GG consistently separates out shots within 25 yards and putts inside 10' as things where I'd get the most improvement when I check into insights.  I'm not sure if that means I should be more demanding of my practice inside of 25 yards or not.  I have had one great round in the past year on short game (and that was literally last round) and two great rounds on putting.  

[billchao]

38 minutes ago, Patch said:

One thing I never do is compare my percentages to those the pro tour guys have. Their game is way, way better than mine. So much better, I consider them playing a different game than I do. 

Yes, they are on a different level and their course conditions are much better, but their percentages are important to manage expectations in my own game. If the best players in the world average 8' from 10-25 yards off the green, for example, it stands to reason that I should not expect to do better than that. They're much closer from inside 10 yards, too. Unfortunately, Game Golf does not break down the stats the same way the PGA Tour does, so for all I know I could average 8' from inside 10 yards and 20' from 10-25 yards or something that would be unreasonable to expect to 1-putt.

I get what you're saying with the rest of your post, though.

31 minutes ago, Club Rat said:

I would say yes to both.

For the long term, definitely. In terms of assigning priority, one might be more important than the other for me, and maybe for others in general. The two skills are linked together.

33 minutes ago, Club Rat said:

I wrote a spreadsheet to enter stats from GG which indicated my trends and was great for realizing areas which are weak and good.
I have all the data of putts made and missed from less than 20 ft along with distance of all approach shots inside 100 yards.
I created graphs to show All rounds, past 20 rds, and recent 10 rds for showing my trends. 

I'm not that meticulous. That's a great tool if you have the information, but that's a lot of time spent doing something when I'd rather be outside hitting balls. That's one thing I dislike about Game Golf. They have this data, they're just not presenting it.

18 minutes ago, Shindig said:

When I practice short game (scoring, not mechanics), I use the drill from LSW that says a good proximity is handicap-in-feet.

I forgot about that. Say I average 12', then for every shot I hit 8' from the hole, I hit another 16' from the hole. That's a lot of getting better at putting I need to do, then.

23 minutes ago, Shindig said:

GG consistently separates out shots within 25 yards and putts inside 10' as things where I'd get the most improvement when I check into insights.  I'm not sure if that means I should be more demanding of my practice inside of 25 yards or not.

Is that the smart tips stuff? I don't use it. I question its validity, TBH. I have one that says if I practice my approach shots on par 3 tees from 125-150 yards, I can save 0.76 strokes per round. There's not a single short par 3 in my usual rotation of courses. I played 3 of them on my weekend trip to CT and ended up 2 over, but they both came from the same hole since I parred the other 2. So Game Golf tells me I can save 0.76 strokes per round by practicing for something I don't usually run into, all based on one errant tee shot. That doesn't make sense to me.

[saevel25]

2 hours ago, billchao said:

So where's the point of diminishing returns? Do I spend more time on the short game and try to get the ball closer, or do I work on my putting and try to increase that make %? Is it even reasonable (for me) to expect to be within 12' from nGIR, or to make 25% of 12' putts? Given limited resources (time), what priority is going to affect scores the most?

It doesn't take much skill to get better at both. I would say putting is easier than short game. If you start making 50% at 8 FT versus 5 FT, that could add up more than trying to hit short game shots inside 5 Ft all the time. Ideally you want a short game shot to end up as close as possible. 

[Shindig]

46 minutes ago, billchao said:

Is that the smart tips stuff? I don't use it. I question its validity, TBH. I have one that says if I practice my approach shots on par 3 tees from 125-150 yards, I can save 0.76 strokes per round. There's not a single short par 3 in my usual rotation of courses. I played 3 of them on my weekend trip to CT and ended up 2 over, but they both came from the same hole since I parred the other 2. So Game Golf tells me I can save 0.76 strokes per round by practicing for something I don't usually run into, all based on one errant tee shot. That doesn't make sense to me.

Yep.  Something I do is take a custom reading, using recent rounds from my home course (or a set of courses I have played regularly) and look at those smart tips. 

[billchao]

53 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

It doesn't take much skill to get better at both. I would say putting is easier than short game. If you start making 50% at 8 FT versus 5 FT, that could add up more than trying to hit short game shots inside 5 Ft all the time.

This is what I was thinking. I don't enjoy putting practice at all, guess it's time to suck it up.

[iacas]

That's the average for non-GIR, but bear in mind that is measured when the ball is first on the green. In other words… if you take six to get on, the length of your sixth shot to the hole is what counts. Even if you took two chips to do it.

The ranges are 2-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-19, 20-24

[JonMA1]

6 hours ago, billchao said:

Game Golf tells me I'm 97% < 5 yards within 25 yards

I'm still trying to get past this. That seems really good to me. If 97% are within 15', I'd guess your average proximity is lower than 12' from that distance.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

That's the average for non-GIR, but bear in mind that is measured when the ball is first on the green. In other words… if you take six to get on, the length of your sixth shot to the hole is what counts. Even if you took two chips to do it.

The ranges are 2-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-19, 20-24

So based on the length of the first putt, regardless of what happened before. I'm pretty much where I should be, then, minus the sand saves because I kind of suck out of bunkers.

Need to work on putting more.

4 minutes ago, JonMA1 said:

I'm still trying to get past this. That seems really good to me. If 97% are within 15', I'd guess your average proximity is lower than 12' from that distance.

I feel like it's misleading. If I short side myself, then pitch it just short onto the fringe 12' from the hole, I didn't hit a good pitch even though it's within 5 yards of the pin.

I never thought anything of it, though. I just checked out some of my older rounds and I was still about 95% within 15'. The only other explanation I can think of is I'm terrible at judging distance on the green and everything is longer than I think it is*, which completely skews all my stats and renders this entire conversation moot.

*If that's the case, that ends up making my putting better than I think it is but my short game worse.

[The Recreational Golfer]

I believe your priority should be on the up and down as one event, not two things put together. When you practice, chip the ball then go hit the putt. Always practice them together, because that's what you'll do on the course. To be sure, you can practice putting alone, and chipping alone, but neither of those teach you how to get up and down. Only practicing up and downs does that, in my experience.

As for those percentages, none of them mean that much to me, because they are all after the fact. When you play there are only two percentages: 100% and 0%. You get this ball up and down or you don't. So practice like that. Hit four balls from the same spot to different holes on the practice green and keep at it until you get all four up and down. Then repeat but hitting to one hole from four different spots. Practice being 100%.

[Lihu]

I agree with @The Recreational Golfer, in not just putting or chipping. You can delude yourself into thinking you’re better than you are by making 10 identical putts or chips and holing or getting close with some percentage of them.

Better to take a break, hit a drive, hit an approach, chip, putt, chip and putt or something like that. Driving ranges won’t like this, but it’s better overall. Especially at @billchao‘s playing level. I’d expect that he’s got a pretty consistent putting stroke and chipping “brush stroke” or whatever.

In fact, better to practice on an empty course...

Edited July 8, 2018 by Lihu