2018 Ryder Cup at Le Golf National - Paris, France

[MonkeyGolfer99]

14 hours ago, Big C said:

@jamo, I agree with you but with one large caveat - Tiger Woods. 

At this point, it has gotten past the point where you can brush it off as the type of oddity that occurs in small sample sizes. To me, there is enough evidence to say that there is something about Tiger Woods that leads the guys he is partnered with to play worse than they should. Call it "reverse chemistry" or something, but it can't be overlooked as random chance anymore. 

I'm not going to speculate on the reasons why, but I will say this. As I looked back on my (limited) team match play experience, I remember getting partnered with one guy in particular in my men's club team matches. Unlike most of the guys on our team who pretty loose and fun regardless of how we were playing, this guy was serious. Not rude, not mean - just deadly serious. And if things weren't going well for us, if we went down in the match early, or if someone three putted to lose a hole, you could almost cut the tension with a knife. 

I didn't enjoy playing with this guy, nor did I ever play particularly well when we were partners. When the pairings came out and I saw that I was partnered with someone else, I was relieved. Not surprisingly, my scores were better in matches when we were not partners. I don't think it was a coincidence.

 

No doubt in my mind that the people around influence your performance.  Was saying the same to a friend after a Medal comp this weekend:  I played with two strangers, one a 26 hcp and a nervous sort and the other an 11 hcp who spewed out the rule book at every opportunity, thought he was the best golfer on the course, moaned constantly, asked questions then answered them himself just as you were about to speak . . . we've all played with them, unfortunately.  I had a good front 9 but honestly, I got so tired of trying to block him out it began affecting me on the back 9.  Same goes for partners in match play.

You'd like to think pros can rise above that but given the stakes/pressure It would be near impossible.

16 hours ago, rehmwa said:

Thank you for stating my thoughts as well

• on the one hand - the win is noted that local knowledge, preparation, hitting fairways and greens, and execution results in a win (I agree)
• then somehow, some undefined 'passion' is put forth as the reason for the win - like 'really wanting it' is the recipe for a win (I find this to be weak rationalization)

better golfing wins,

as for 'passion' - these are all HIGHLY motivated professionals that hate to lose, love to win, and all of them absolutely adore the Ryder Cup.  There's plenty of passion.  The fact that we see it more with the teams that have the initial "momentum" is a result, not a cause.

reminds me of execs that ask for "a sense of urgency" in projects.......yeah, I'll still work hard, but I'll act scared and rushed the entire time and that will make things go faster.

I agree and it's a fair point but . . . 

If the mood in one camp is positive, supportive, energized etc then I think that will have an impact psychologically i.e confidence in hitting down that tight fairway, making putts etc.

Contrast that to a fear of losing, a competitive element within your team etc and even though the will to win may be stronger I'd argue that makes it harder to perform optimally.

Not that I'm implying the US team were the latter, and vice versa, more that when you look at all the elements that make 'passion' I think it would be naive to not acknowledge their effects.

[MonkeyGolfer99]

Don't know if this has been mentioned but I have to say how classy Furyk was in defeat.  He's not exactly a tub-thumper but I liked the way he just got on with business and was the first to congratulate the Europeans.

Fair play, Jim!

[Vinsk]

I really hope they're just chit chatting about Stricker being the next captain. Let's get away from the zero personality theme.  Let's look for someone who will be outspoken without fear of any criticism and who has a good sense of strategy. Stricker will be just a slot filler. Nice guys finish last. 

[3jacker]

How many more decades will Europe have to hand us our asses overseas for us to become the underdogs when playing an away game?

[BallStriker]

DJ and Brooks need to be separated in the team locker room afterwards......WTF is going on?  

Let's just get to Whistling Straights...set up the course at 7800 yards and fairway width maxed out.....then let's try again.

[rehmwa]

16 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Being able to hit a fairway is not a Euro thing. It’s a good golfers thing.

this ^^^

c'mon people.  all these guys play together, play the same courses, play all kinds of course, all 'wanted it' just as badly coming in - it's just who was 'on' that week vs not.

Edited October 2, 2018 by rehmwa

[ghalfaire]

22 hours ago, 3jacker said:

You'd think they'd have thought of some of this stuff, being the best golfers in the world.

Maybe they should read this board to get their head on straight.  It's shocking to me that Jim Furyk knows less about the players, the sport and the venue than a bunch of guys on the internet. 
I guess my eyes have been opened.  I hope our future captains' are as well. 

Well I'd say that knowledge of the players, the sport, venue are probably necessary to be a good captain.  But apparently not sufficient to produce a winning record.  Europe is 9-3-0 the last 25 years.  Do you believe we're just that over matched? I don't.  I don't put it all on the captain either, but I would say being an elite player and being a good captain are not the same thing.  Also worth of note is it would seem somehow the European team seems to be able to raise their games for the RC, while often several of our players don't even play to their abilities (I'm not saying they don't care, I'm sure they do).  I don't pretend I know the answer, but I know when you consistently get beat by what would appear on paper less talented teams, you're doing something wrong. 

[rehmwa]

5 hours ago, MonkeyGolfer99 said:

 agree and it's a fair point but . . . 

If the mood in one camp is positive, supportive, energized etc then I think that will have an impact psychologically i.e confidence in hitting down that tight fairway, making putts etc.

Yes team chemistry could be a factor - especially when you have to play with someone you don't like or brings you down.  That's not really about wanting it more or being more passionate, though

for Psychological edge?  I'd say momentum is more of a factor than just motivation/passion coming in.  It's easier to stay up when you are up, than to get back up when you are down.  Even there, this isn't high school sports, these are pros.

Edited October 2, 2018 by rehmwa

[weekend hacker1]

29 minutes ago, BallStriker said:

DJ and Brooks need to be separated in the team locker room afterwards......WTF is going on?  

Let's just get to Whistling Straights...set up the course at 7800 yards and fairway width maxed out.....then let's try again.

Brooks shagging Paulina...? It's like a bloody soap opera.

10 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

this ^^^

c'mon people.  all these guys play together, play the same courses, play all kinds of course, all 'wanted it' just as badly coming in - it's just who was 'on' that week vs not.

There has to be a bit more to it than that, as it would be pretty unlikely for the US to invariably lose away from home.

[rehmwa]

26 minutes ago, weekend hacker1 said:

There has to be a bit more to it than that, as it would be pretty unlikely for the US to invariably lose away from home.

sure, but I don't think it's as simplistic than our typical monday morning quarterbacks are hypothesizing - but it does make a good discussion.

I think Fleetwood's hair is descended directly from Sampson's and THAT explains it

 

55 minutes ago, BallStriker said:

DJ and Brooks need to be separated in the team locker room afterwards......WTF is going on?

I guess the team members are passionate about winning......

I would contend that our most successful players are the ones with little 'publicly displayed' (ie. cosmetic vs real internal) passion and even less ego - Tony and Webb and Justin.  They are more 'fit in' kind of guys, rather than super stars  (i'm stretching it a little with Justin maybe, but he seems to put the ego aside better than most)

Edited October 2, 2018 by rehmwa

[Vinsk]

JT: Just likes to play golf..isn’t dealing with anything else apparently.

Finau: Easy going, low stress. No issues.

Simpson: Happy guy. Just plays golf.

Spieth: Struggling with his swing/putting. Dealing with Reed’s attitude/comments earlier in the season.

DJ: Troubles with Paulina...and apparently something with Brooks.

Koepka: Apparently something with DJ.

Bubba: Well, he’s Bubba.

Tiger: He was tired. Partners played awful.

BDC: Struggled with himself. Rookie. Recent poor play leading to match.

Reed: Piss poor attitude. Spieth issue.

Phil: Just playing poorly. Odd pairing.

Fowler: Happy guy. Good attitude. Didn’t play to his potential.

Furyk: Had to deal with all that mess. It was like dealing with a disgruntled family at Disney World.

A recipe for disaster that played out as just that.

[RussUK]

1 hour ago, BallStriker said:

DJ and Brooks need to be separated in the team locker room afterwards......WTF is going on?  

 

I think the post tournement beer's they were partaking in contributed to their heated exchange.

[rehmwa]

“This means a lot to me,” Garcia said. “I have passed some of my heroes today-and Nick Faldo.”

The more I find about Sergio, the more of a fan I become.  This one is great.

[Piz]

Sounds like some, on the U.S. squad, are taking the "me" in "team" a bit too seriously.

[colin007]

Omg DJ and Brooks....bring on the lolz, this is hilarious.

[JSGolf]

DJ and Brooks going at it? Aren't/Weren't they best buds? And who pretty much told the media that Patrick was full of shit? Which team member could it have been??

[Vinsk]

10 hours ago, weekend hacker1 said:

There has to be a bit more to it than that, as it would be pretty unlikely for the US to invariably lose away from home.

Maybe. But we're talking about this Ryder Cup.

[BallStriker]

1 hour ago, JSGolf said:

DJ and Brooks going at it? Aren't/Weren't they best buds? And who pretty much told the media that Patrick was full of shit? Which team member could it have been??

Who really knows....but, when something significant happens in a relationship (like cheating), there is a tendency for a lot of stuff to be said and come out of the woodwork......Paulina and Brooks' GF may be friends and can make for uncomfortable enviornment and sometimes things are said or implied (for example, Broooks maybe new shit about DJ screwing around....maybe DJ has said shit implying that Brooks may not be so innocent either)....just speculation, but this kind of stuff can happen fast when in a massively stressful situation such as a cheating situation.......people have a tendency to say half-truths or outright lies in attempt to deflect.........you just never know

As for the NY Times article............Phil would be my overwhelming favorite for this