Golfer Loses Ball, Didn't Know Was Holed

[Grinde6]

Has this been brought up before?

Ok, here's the scenario. Guy hitting his 2nd shot into a par 5. Uphill, blind shot with a hazard in front of the green. Guy hits shot, but can not tell if it cleared the hazard. We get to green, se no ball on, cant find a ball anywhere over the green either, so he assumes ball didnt clear the hazard. Drops and hits 4th shot into hole for birdie. When going to the flag to retrieve his ball from the hole, there are 2 balls in the cup. The other was his first shot. He holed out his first ball, but dropped because he couldn't find it, then holed his dropped bats well. Guy in the group says he made a 4 since he abandoned the first ball, but I said since first ball was in the hole, he had already completed the hole, and the 2 should stand. Who's correct?

[MrGolfguy67]

Dude made a double eagle.

[Golfingdad]

24 minutes ago, Grinde6 said:

Has this been brought up before?

Ok, here's the scenario. Guy hitting his 2nd shot into a par 5. Uphill, blind shot with a hazard in front of the green. Guy hits shot, but can not tell if it cleared the hazard. We get to green, se no ball on, cant find a ball anywhere over the green either, so he assumes ball didnt clear the hazard. Drops and hits 4th shot into hole for birdie. When going to the flag to retrieve his ball from the hole, there are 2 balls in the cup. The other was his first shot. He holed out his first ball, but dropped because he couldn't find it, then holed his dropped bats well. Guy in the group says he made a 4 since he abandoned the first ball, but I said since first ball was in the hole, he had already completed the hole, and the 2 should stand. Who's correct?

How could somebody abandon a ball that was already holed?  I don't KNOW the answer, but it has to be what you said - dude got an albatross.

---

BTW, pretty incredible that the guy managed to make a birdie as well with the second ball. :)

EDIT:  I posted before I saw @MrGolfguy67's post ... (super amused that we both used the exact same phrasing) 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Golfingdad

[DeadMan]

He made a 2:

Decision 1-1/2

Player Unaware He has Holed Out Puts Another Ball into Play

Q.A player, unable to find his ball, puts another ball into play. He then discovers that his original ball is in the hole. What is the ruling?

A.The score with the original ball counts. The play of the hole was completed when the player holed that ball.

[DaveP043]

Once the first ball is holed, the guy's hole is complete.  He made a 2.

See Decision 1-2/2

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-01

[Shindig]

Follow-up question:  what of his shot after holing out?  Did it constitute practice, and if so, where is the penalty applied?

Seeing as how it wasn't intent to practice (not much different than whacking range balls absently while walking to one's ball on a hole that borders the practice tee), my guess is no penalty, but I don't know.

[DaveP043]

39 minutes ago, Shindig said:

Follow-up question:  what of his shot after holing out?  Did it constitute practice, and if so, where is the penalty applied?

Seeing as how it wasn't intent to practice (not much different than whacking range balls absently while walking to one's ball on a hole that borders the practice tee), my guess is no penalty, but I don't know.

There are a couple of Decisions on Rule 1 that make it clear there's no penalty.

[HJJ003]

Wow what a interesting way to realize you made an albatross! 

[Shindig]

16 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

There are a couple of Decisions on Rule 1 that make it clear there's no penalty.

Thanks.  I really should read the decisions one of these days.

[nevets88]

Dude needs to buy not just a round of drinks for the clubhouse, but two, then go out and put all in on red at the casino.

[Josh Mathews]

That needs to be a 2 as the hole is complete in 2nd shot. 

[chilepepper]

On 8/2/2018 at 5:48 PM, Shindig said:

Follow-up question:  what of his shot after holing out?  Did it constitute practice, and if so, where is the penalty applied?

Seeing as how it wasn't intent to practice (not much different than whacking range balls absently while walking to one's ball on a hole that borders the practice tee), my guess is no penalty, but I don't know.

Once the ball was holed the hole was completed for him. It’s my understanding practice is ok then

[iacas]

1 minute ago, chilepepper said:

Once the ball was holed the hole was completed for him. It’s my understanding practice is ok then

Practice is not okay (chipping and putting is different). But this was not practice. It was a mistake in thinking he had lost his ball.

[Hardspoon]

On 8/2/2018 at 5:59 PM, Golfingdad said:

BTW, pretty incredible that the guy managed to make a birdie as well with the second ball. 🙂

Actually, he didn't - he made a bogie on the second ball.  😛  He took an improper drop and played from the wrong place (per Decision 26-1/3), since it wasn't "known or virtually certain" that the ball was in the hazard...so, a two-stroke penalty in addition to the stroke-and-distance.

[Patch]

One of my hole in ones went something like this scenario. Couldn't find my ball. My partner holed out while I continued to look.

Just as I dropped my ball at the drop area, he found my first ball in the hole while retrieving his ball.

[Martyn W]

On 8/5/2018 at 11:54 AM, Hardspoon said:

Actually, he didn't - he made a bogie on the second ball.  😛  He took an improper drop and played from the wrong place (per Decision 26-1/3), since it wasn't "known or virtually certain" that the ball was in the hazard...so, a two-stroke penalty in addition to the stroke-and-distance.

He would actually be DQ since the wrong place was a serious breach which was not corrected.

[DaveP043]

On 8/5/2018 at 11:54 AM, Hardspoon said:

Actually, he didn't - he made a bogie on the second ball.  😛  He took an improper drop and played from the wrong place (per Decision 26-1/3), since it wasn't "known or virtually certain" that the ball was in the hazard...so, a two-stroke penalty in addition to the stroke-and-distance.

Depending on the yardages, and the terrain and vegetation around the green, its possible he could be virtually certain that the ball was in the hazard.  I don't think we have enough information to make that judgement one way or the other.

Quote

However, "virtual certainty" also means that, although the ball has not been found, when all readily available information is considered, the conclusion that there is nowhere that the ball could be except in the water hazard would be justified.

 

[Hardspoon]

4 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Depending on the yardages, and the terrain and vegetation around the green, its possible he could be virtually certain that the ball was in the hazard.  I don't think we have enough information to make that judgement one way or the other.

I disagree.  The original post said it was an "uphill, blind shot with a hazard in front of the green", indicating that he couldn't see the ball come down at all...and it's clear (since the ball was holed!) that the club he used had the potential to clear the hazard.

But...I guess this is off-topic, anyway.