Stop Lying About Your Distance - It's Pissing Me Off (Rant Thread)

[billchao]

  On 10/25/2018 at 1:16 PM, Righty to Lefty said:

I feel like I'm going to have to actually post swings of me hitting the shots at this point to show I'm not a keyboard warrior !!

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I wouldn't if I were you, unless you just wanted to share your swing or start a swing thread.

It doesn't matter what people on the internet think about how far you hit the ball or whether you're lying or not.

[Casualgolfer]

I think I am a great example of this oddity. I don't carry an official handicap but I expect to shoot 82-86 any given day but have broke 80 twice so far. I can carry a drive over 320 without issue. Have had several drives where total distance has been gauged over 350. But that is mainly due to my raw physical ability. Actually playing golf is alot harder lol. If you hit a drive at 250 and it lands in the first cut of rough, my drive might be in the other fairway or in the woods if we both started on the same line. Yes the distance can really help when you can manage it but it can also massively hurt you. I actually went out a few weeks back and played 2 balls and kept separate scores. One ball I need off with my driver and the other with my 4 iron. For par 3's I played only one ball to use for both scores. I shot an 83 with my 4 iron and an 84 with my driver. The driver actually won out on the front but the 4 iron did much better on the back 9. So I ordered a 2 iron in hopes of a better middle ground on holes I really shouldn't hit driver. 

[TN94z]

Most of my experiences from guys that aren't real good golfers but hit it a long way is that they played baseball in the past. Even though their swing may not hit all the right positions, they know how to generate swing speed. I played with a few ex-baseball players that I would beat every round, but those guys could absolutely smoke the ball. It wasn't anything that was very consistent and the dispersion was not ideal, but as far as carry distance, it was ridiculous.

[Pretzel]

  On 10/25/2018 at 6:21 PM, Casualgolfer said:

I can carry a drive over 320 without issue.

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Not to be that guy, but I would be very interested in seeing some numbers of that. Even in the tournaments I play I've met a very small handful of people who could somewhat consistently carry the ball that far, which would equate to an average fairway drive in the 350 yard range. If you've hit on a Trackman or other such device before I'd be interested in hearing what your clubhead speed and ball speed is for those kind of carry distances.

[iacas]

  On 10/25/2018 at 12:06 PM, Righty to Lefty said:

I am just not understanding the correlation being drawn between swing speed and handicap because one is not in anyway a reflection of the other.

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Then… I'm not sure you understand the word "correlation."

Better players tend to swing faster, and players who swing faster tend to be better players. That's a correlation.

  On 10/25/2018 at 12:06 PM, Righty to Lefty said:

The same miss at 105 mph is greatly magnified at 124 mph and so power must always be kept under control.

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The 124 MPH guy can always dial it back to 105, too, while the 105 guy can never dial it up to 124 (unless he's only 105 because he's dialed it back from 124 😄).

  On 10/25/2018 at 1:20 PM, chspeed said:

Even if the conclusion resulted from a rigorously reviewed repeatable experiment with a good sample size (which, no offense intended, I doubt it was), the advice would still only be applicable "on average".

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FWIW our data is pretty good, but Mark Broadie's is (in this area) even better, and I'm pretty sure his sample size is in the thousands of golfers. Ours was in the hundreds at the time of publication.

And no offense taken, but… also, we didn't just conclude things from like 50 people we know.

  On 10/25/2018 at 1:20 PM, chspeed said:

The other piece of this is that people are terrible at assessing their own weaknesses. The only way to know for sure is keep accurate statistics (no cheating!) and see where you're losing the most strokes.

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Yep.

Can't say that enough.

[Casualgolfer]

  On 10/25/2018 at 8:20 PM, Pretzel said:

Not to be that guy, but I would be very interested in seeing some numbers of that. Even in the tournaments I play I've met a very small handful of people who could somewhat consistently carry the ball that far, which would equate to an average fairway drive in the 350 yard range. If you've hit on a Trackman or other such device before I'd be interested in hearing what your clubhead speed and ball speed is for those kind of carry distances.

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No problem, I went and hit on flight scope a couple months ago to see what my spin numbers were doing on my new driver and I topped at 134 mph club head speed with ball speeds just under 200 mph. I was hitting a "long drive" driver because I wanted something with less than 8.5 degrees of loft that my current driver was. Only thing I could find on eBay were long drive heads so I bought 3 different long drive clubs. As soon as I hit them I quickly realized that these were so much better for my swing speed! Immediate flatter ball flights that landed and would actually roll out. I get lots of stop and stares at the driving range lol. Couple workers at my course kind of joke with me when I go hit balls. They ask if they will have to go pick them up in the road today because at the end of the range is a fairway that runs perpendicular and after that is a roadway. A couple times I know I have carried the road but I don't try and make a habit of it haha. I'm thinking about trying to slow it down some to be honest and dial it up only when needed.

[ChetlovesMer]

  On 10/25/2018 at 7:01 PM, TN94z said:

Most of my experiences from guys that aren't real good golfers but hit it a long way is that they played baseball in the past. Even though their swing may not hit all the right positions, they know how to generate swing speed. I played with a few ex-baseball players that I would beat every round, but those guys could absolutely smoke the ball. It wasn't anything that was very consistent and the dispersion was not ideal, but as far as carry distance, it was ridiculous.

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I've known hockey players who are also in that category. 

[Righty to Lefty]

  On 10/25/2018 at 8:51 PM, iacas said:

Better players tend to swing faster, and players who swing faster tend to be better players. That's a correlation.

 

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I don't agree with that because I know plenty of baseball players that swing it fast and are terrible players.  Better players hit it better and that is why they are better in regards to amateur golfers. Just because you are a beginner, doesn't mean that you haven't played a game such as hockey or baseball that are known for translating to high swing speed in golf.  And just because swing speed is reduced by "dialing it back" that doesn't mean that the player is hitting it any better, because they likely aren't, it just means that their miss isn't going as far offline.  Dialing it back by knocking off large amounts of speed  (dropping back from 124 mph to 105 mph) often leads to poorer results from what I've seen and experienced because it upsets the golfers natural rhythm.   

I would actually hypothesize that the fastest speed most people have, if they pick up the game as and adult, will be just after they first start playing.  If you hand someone a stick and tell them swing it...they will in most cases swing it freely and without worry.  It's when you add impact into the equation that it all goes out the window.  The second you go from "just hit the ball anywhere" to "hit it here specifically," the golfer is immediately going to begin sacrificing speed to find solid impact. I'd be willing to bet that very few golfers swing it faster on the course in comparison to the driving range. All golfers do this to manage their way around the golf course but the amount of speed given up will be a few miles per hour and not 15 or 20. .  

Better players get to, and predict impact better...that is why they are better. The faster swingers on tour tend to make the most money because they are equal in all other areas of the game but an amateur golfers don't have that same luxury

  On 10/25/2018 at 11:50 PM, Casualgolfer said:

No problem, I went and hit on flight scope a couple months ago to see what my spin numbers were doing on my new driver and I topped at 134 mph club head speed with ball speeds just under 200 mph. I was hitting a "long drive" driver because I wanted something with less than 8.5 degrees of loft that my current driver was. Only thing I could find on eBay were long drive heads so I bought 3 different long drive clubs. As soon as I hit them I quickly realized that these were so much better for my swing speed! Immediate flatter ball flights that landed and would actually roll out. I get lots of stop and stares at the driving range lol. Couple workers at my course kind of joke with me when I go hit balls. They ask if they will have to go pick them up in the road today because at the end of the range is a fairway that runs perpendicular and after that is a roadway. A couple times I know I have carried the road but I don't try and make a habit of it haha. I'm thinking about trying to slow it down some to be honest and dial it up only when needed.

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https://sellingerspowergolf.com/home/

Cally XR16 long drive heads.  5 degree stock setting that can be adjusted up to 7 degrees or down to 4.  Changed my life because it flattened out my ball flight and the heads are really solid.  Only problem is that I'm a lefty and they are sold out so I can't buy a backup head!! I don't swing at 129 anymore but I am still at around 120 and my AoA is usually around 5 up so the low loft produces a really good ball flight for me and is another option for you. 

Upon further inspection of the site they are sold out of the XR16 heads in righty also but that is a site you could monitor it for long drive heads in the future. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Righty to Lefty

[Righty to Lefty]

https://one-stop-power-shop-golf-store.myshopify.com/collections/custom-driver-heads

They are in stock on this site though in righty and lefty. I'm ordering a backup head as I type this !! 

[Lihu]

  On 10/26/2018 at 4:10 AM, Righty to Lefty said:

I don't agree with that because I know plenty of baseball players that swing it fast and are terrible players. 

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When you say terrible players, do you mean something in the range of 7-12 HC?

 

[Casualgolfer]

  On 10/26/2018 at 4:10 AM, Righty to Lefty said:

I don't agree with that because I know plenty of baseball players that swing it fast and are terrible players.  Better players hit it better and that is why they are better in regards to amateur golfers. Just because you are a beginner, doesn't mean that you haven't played a game such as hockey or baseball that are known for translating to high swing speed in golf.  And just because swing speed is reduced by "dialing it back" that doesn't mean that the player is hitting it any better, because they likely aren't, it just means that their miss isn't going as far offline.  Dialing it back by knocking off large amounts of speed  (dropping back from 124 mph to 105 mph) often leads to poorer results from what I've seen and experienced because it upsets the golfers natural rhythm.   

I would actually hypothesize that the fastest speed most people have, if they pick up the game as and adult, will be just after they first start playing.  If you hand someone a stick and tell them swing it...they will in most cases swing it freely and without worry.  It's when you add impact into the equation that it all goes out the window.  The second you go from "just hit the ball anywhere" to "hit it here specifically," the golfer is immediately going to begin sacrificing speed to find solid impact. I'd be willing to bet that very few golfers swing it faster on the course in comparison to the driving range. All golfers do this to manage their way around the golf course but the amount of speed given up will be a few miles per hour and not 15 or 20. .  

Better players get to, and predict impact better...that is why they are better. The faster swingers on tour tend to make the most money because they are equal in all other areas of the game but an amateur golfers don't have that same luxury

https://sellingerspowergolf.com/home/

Cally XR16 long drive heads.  5 degree stock setting that can be adjusted up to 7 degrees or down to 4.  Changed my life because it flattened out my ball flight and the heads are really solid.  Only problem is that I'm a lefty and they are sold out so I can't buy a backup head!! I don't swing at 129 anymore but I am still at around 120 and my AoA is usually around 5 up so the low loft produces a really good ball flight for me and is another option for you. 

Upon further inspection of the site they are sold out of the XR16 heads in righty also but that is a site you could monitor it for long drive heads in the future. 

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I have a Callaway xr16 LD head on a Xphlexxx Busa 2X shaft and like it. I switch between it and my Krank F7 with a 3x fujikura flywire. Flight scope didn't have AoA but my spin numbers indicated I was not striking it upward too much. The baseball player in me wants to take my top hand (right hand) and drive it into the ball to hit those long back spinning home runs lol. Except in golf that extra back spin was killing my drives with higher lofted drivers. As soon as I hit a 5 degree it was like night and day. I feel like it has improved my ball striking overall as well on my other clubs.

[DaveP043]

  On 10/26/2018 at 4:10 AM, Righty to Lefty said:

I don't agree with that because I know plenty of baseball players that swing it fast and are terrible players.  Better players hit it better and that is why they are better in regards to amateur golfers. Just because you are a beginner, doesn't mean that you haven't played a game such as hockey or baseball that are known for translating to high swing speed in golf.  And just because swing speed is reduced by "dialing it back" that doesn't mean that the player is hitting it any better, because they likely aren't, it just means that their miss isn't going as far offline.  Dialing it back by knocking off large amounts of speed  (dropping back from 124 mph to 105 mph) often leads to poorer results from what I've seen and experienced because it upsets the golfers natural rhythm.   

I would actually hypothesize that the fastest speed most people have, if they pick up the game as and adult, will be just after they first start playing.  If you hand someone a stick and tell them swing it...they will in most cases swing it freely and without worry.  It's when you add impact into the equation that it all goes out the window.  The second you go from "just hit the ball anywhere" to "hit it here specifically," the golfer is immediately going to begin sacrificing speed to find solid impact. I'd be willing to bet that very few golfers swing it faster on the course in comparison to the driving range. All golfers do this to manage their way around the golf course but the amount of speed given up will be a few miles per hour and not 15 or 20. .  

Better players get to, and predict impact better...that is why they are better. The faster swingers on tour tend to make the most money because they are equal in all other areas of the game but an amateur golfers don't have that same luxury

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"Better players hit it better", on that we agree.  For any given swing speed, center contact with properly aligned swing path and clubface will produce the maximum distance.  Better players make that proper contact more often, so they generally get close to the maximum potential distance.  Ergo, a better player will hit it further, on average, than a poorer player with the same swing speed.

Better players have better mechanics, they do things to maximize their swing speed while still getting proper contact.  That doesn't mean SOME poorer players don't get high swing speeds, but IN GENERAL a player with better mechanics will produce higher swing speeds.  Higher swing speeds coupled with consistently better contact will result in more distance. 

Nobody has ever argued that there aren't exceptions to the general trend.  I haven't seen the data for the correlations between driver distance and handicap, but I imagine there's plenty of scatter.  Your baseball players are part of that scatter.

 

[iacas]

  On 10/26/2018 at 4:10 AM, Righty to Lefty said:

I don't agree with that

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You don’t agree with a fact?

Dude that’s totally on you. This isn’t opinion. You are provably wrong.

I don’t care about a few exceptions and I’ve never said “all.”

And your baseball players are generally better than others who have been playing as long but swing 2/3 as fast.

[Righty to Lefty]

  On 10/26/2018 at 12:21 PM, DaveP043 said:

"Better players hit it better", on that we agree.  For any given swing speed, center contact with properly aligned swing path and clubface will produce the maximum distance.  Better players make that proper contact more often, so they generally get close to the maximum potential distance.  Ergo, a better player will hit it further, on average, than a poorer player with the same swing speed.

Better players have better mechanics, they do things to maximize their swing speed while still getting proper contact.  That doesn't mean SOME poorer players don't get high swing speeds, but IN GENERAL a player with better mechanics will produce higher swing speeds.  Higher swing speeds coupled with consistently better contact will result in more distance. 

Nobody has ever argued that there aren't exceptions to the general trend.  I haven't seen the data for the correlations between driver distance and handicap, but I imagine there's plenty of scatter.  Your baseball players are part of that scatter.

 

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For the most part swing speed is just one of those things that you either have or you don't.  A poorer player can swing faster than a tour pro but still not be within 30 strokes of the Pro on the course.  A better player hits it better...no matter what speed they bring to the table.  I can be a scratch golfer at 100 mph swing speed or at 120 mph.  Swinging fast in and of itself is in no way a predictor of a golfers ability because swing speed isn't gained as your handicap goes down.  The ability to get more efficiency out of your swing does improve though, but the golfers swing speed didn't increase, impact conditions are what improved.  

[iacas]

  On 10/26/2018 at 12:50 PM, Righty to Lefty said:

Swinging fast in and of itself is in no way a predictor of a golfers ability

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Wrong.

It is. Not 100% but far, far from 0% too.

[Righty to Lefty]

  On 10/26/2018 at 12:46 PM, iacas said:

You don’t agree with a fact?

Dude that’s totally on you. This isn’t opinion. You are provably wrong.

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Show me where swing speed is gained as ones handicap get lower and that would be a start.  

  On 10/26/2018 at 12:51 PM, iacas said:

Wrong.

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I swung 129 mph when I switched from righty to lefty.  I was a 36 handicap...I now play to a 5.2 at 118 mph. Where is my speed increase?!! I am a better player now more than ever !! 

[iacas]

  On 10/26/2018 at 12:52 PM, Righty to Lefty said:

I swung 129 mph when I switched from righty to lefty.  I was a 36 handicap...I now play to a 5.2 at 118 mph. Where is my speed increase?!! I am a better player now more than ever !! 

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OMG a sample size of 1! Stop the presses! Throw away the sample sizes of tens of thousands!

Dude.

[saevel25]

  On 10/26/2018 at 12:52 PM, Righty to Lefty said:

I swung 129 mph when I switched from righty to lefty.  I was a 36 handicap...I now play to a 5.2 at 118 mph. Where is my speed increase?!! I am a better player now more than ever !! 

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