DeChambeau To Decide Whether To Leave Flagstick In Based On Its Flexibility

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Our winner today, Mr. DeChambeau, loves the flagstick rule.  He intends to always leave the stick in.  With the exception of U.S. Opens where the stick has a greater circumference.  He claims it's a Coefficient of Restitution thing... yep, sounds like Bryson.

Did you intend to post this elsewhere?

[Double Mocha Man]

43 minutes ago, iacas said:

Did you intend to post this elsewhere?

It was an anecdotal followup to the comment on the flagstick rule.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

It was an anecdotal followup to the comment on the flagstick rule.

Okay, then I'll move it to another topic. This one is about something different.

P.S. Moved.

[Double Mocha Man]

4 hours ago, Aflighter said:

Caddies should be happy cause it will be less work for them having to put flagsticks back in.

I think we'll see a statistical jump in bad backs, chiropractic visits and Aleve sales.  For those with already fragile backs the constant bending over to pick up the flagstick multiple times on the same green will spell lumbar trouble.

Since somebody once was able to invent the ball retriever there should now be the cigar stand for flagsticks...

[Zeph]

Not a big fan of this rule change. The current one is perfect. You can hit the flagstick if you are hitting from off the green like an approach shot or chip, but once on the green it has to go. It is a pretty big change on a fundamental in golf. 

[klineka]

8 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I think we'll see a statistical jump in bad backs, chiropractic visits and Aleve sales.  For those with already fragile backs the constant bending over to pick up the flagstick multiple times on the same green will spell lumbar trouble.

Since somebody once was able to invent the ball retriever there should now be the cigar stand for flagsticks...

 I think the caddies will be fine.

[rehmwa]

2 hours ago, klineka said:

 I think the caddies will be fine.

for that matter, I suspect they are all already maxed out on Aleve purchases

[Double Mocha Man]

2 hours ago, klineka said:

 I think the caddies will be fine.

I agree. The caddies will be fine. It's the rank-and-file, the rest of us who are subject to back pain.  At least don't ask the guy who uses a suction cup to get his ball out of the hole to also handle flagstick duties.

[NM Golf]

Had a discussion about all of this yesterday with my Sunday foursome. I guess Bryson has more pull than I do. I mentioned I would be leaving the pin in starting next year and they immediately started with their normal it deflects the ball rhetoric until I mentioned DeChambeau doing it. They then changed their tune. I don't know why they don't believe me?

[klineka]

39 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I agree. The caddies will be fine. It's the rank-and-file, the rest of us who are subject to back pain.  At least don't ask the guy who uses a suction cup to get his ball out of the hole to also handle flagstick duties.

I can't tell if you're serious or trolling. 

If you want the flag in while you putt, but someone else who is further out wants to putt with the flagstick out, you can pull the flag, hold the flag upright while he/she putts, put the flag back in the hole, then you can putt. Flagstick never touched the ground and you never had to bend over to pick it up. Simple.

[phan52]

On 11/3/2018 at 12:33 PM, colin007 said:

 Smarter people than you or I have tested it. It's not random, You are costing yourself strokes. Be smarter than that. 

. Well, the concept of the new rule leaving the pin in has nothing to do with making or missing putts. It's only about faster play. I will react accordingly. Rather than wait until someone gets to the pin to remove it on my longer putts, I'll putt away. But when I am close and lining up a putt I will do as I always have and remove the pin.

Edited November 6, 2018 by phan52

[klineka]

1 minute ago, phan52 said:

Well, the concept of the new rule leaving the pin in has nothing to do with making or missing putts. It's only about faster play. 

Just because the concept of the new rule is about pace of play doesn't change the fact that you have an advantage by putting with the flag in.

It doesnt matter to the physics why the rule was created and the flag was left in.

It's a simple fact. By choosing to putt with the flagstick out, you are taking away an advantage that was given to you by the rules of the game.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, phan52 said:

. Well, the concept of the new rule leaving the pin in has nothing to do with making or missing putts. It's only about faster play. I will react accordingly. Rather than wait until someone gets to the pin to remove it on my longer putts, I'll putt away. But when I am close and lining up a putt I will do as I always have and remove the pin.

That makes no sense from a logical perspective.

First, the new rule may actually slow play. Suppose you have a 40 footer with the flag in. You hit it to 4’. Your buddy with an uphill putt takes the flagstick out. Your other buddy puts it back in as he has a downhill 15’ putt.

What do you do? Take it back out? You’re slowing down play.

Plus the Rules don’t comprehend “strategy” in the sense of leaving the flagstick in can help you. It does. So you’re willingly giving up an advantage that the rules now afford you.

[phan52]

2 minutes ago, klineka said:

Just because the concept of the new rule is about pace of play doesn't change the fact that you have an advantage by putting with the flag in.

It doesnt matter to the physics why the rule was created and the flag was left in.

It's a simple fact. By choosing to putt with the flagstick out, you are taking away an advantage that was given to you by the rules of the game.

I'll deal with my way, you deal with it yours. I doubt it will make much difference. If i hit a good putt it will go in. If I make a bad stroke it won't. The vast majority of putts that we all miss either hit edges or don't hit the hole at all and the pin would have zero effect. 

But I can just hear you now, when your putt hits smack in the middle of the pin and goes in. "See, what'd I tell you!"

 

[Pretzel]

1 minute ago, phan52 said:

I'll deal with my way, you deal with it yours. I doubt it will make much difference. If i hit a good putt it will go in. If I make a bad stroke it won't. The vast majority of putts that we all miss either hit edges or don't hit the hole at all and the pin would have zero effect. 

But I can just hear you now, when your putt hits smack in the middle of the pin and goes in. "See, what'd I tell you!"

Here's the thing though: the pin will never hurt you.

If your putt is moving so fast that it hits the pin and ricochets away from the hole, your putt was moving fast enough that it would've cruised right over the hole and kept going. The flagstick, in that scenario, is acting like a backstop that will help slow your putt down more than if it just hit the lip of the hole and kept on trucking.

If your putt is moving a little too quickly and it hits the pin, it will either stay in the hole (where it previously could've gone over it or lipped out) or it will bounce a reduced distance. You're more than welcome to leave the pin in or take it out at your discretion, but the data shows you're only hurting yourself by taking it out.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, phan52 said:

I'll deal with my way, you deal with it yours. I doubt it will make much difference. If i hit a good putt it will go in. If I make a bad stroke it won't.

You’re right… but only for putts that aren’t traveling very fast at the hole. Give one a little too much speed and the flagstick is a net help.

In that way bad putts can go in with the flagstick that otherwise would have missed.

[phan52]

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

You’re right… but only for putts that aren’t traveling very fast at the hole. Give one a little too much speed and the flagstick is a net help.

In that way bad putts can go in with the flagstick that otherwise would have missed.

I hear ya. We'll see how it goes. I even have the habit of taking out the pin on the putting green when I am practicing because it reflects the conditions when I play. Maybe that will change for me with the new rule. 

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, Pretzel said:

Here's the thing though: the pin will never hurt you.

I

Here's a scenario where leaving the pin in WOULD hurt you:  Left to right downhill 25' putt.  Pin in.  You hit it hard enough to go 5' beyond the hole.  It hits the pin and caroms to the right.  Short uphill putt, right to left... our favorite kind of putt.  Or, it hits the pin and caroms left!  4' slippery downhill putt, breaking left to right.

Pin out and you either make it or have a 5 footer coming back... right to left, uphill.  Again, our favorite kind of putt.  Assuming right handed putters here.

If you're the guy where the ball caroms left, leaving the pin in WILL hurt you.