Tour Players and 2019 Rules (Running Topic)

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

DJ got a penalty for hitting a ball that wasn't his out of a penalty area in the Kapalua event: 

Dustin Johnson plays wrong ball, gets 2-shot penalty at Sentry TOC | Golf Channel

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Dustin Johnson was penalized two shots for hitting a wrong ball from the penalty area Friday at Kapalua.

 

That's not new though.

[DeadMan]

27 minutes ago, iacas said:

That's not new though.

Ha! I didn't look it up to see if it was new or not. I do remember when it happened that the broadcast said it was a new penalty. 

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Ha! I didn't look it up to see if it was new or not. I do remember when it happened that the broadcast said it was a new penalty. 

I don’t think it is though:

[DeadMan]

Yeah, I don’t know what the third penalty is then. Maybe he’s just counting 3 penalty strokes and not being clear? I just asked him on Twitter, so we’ll see if he responds. 

Anyways, I should know better than to trust the broadcast on rules stuff. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by DeadMan

[Missouri Swede]

1 hour ago, DeadMan said:

DJ got a penalty for hitting a ball that wasn't his out of a penalty area in the Kapalua event: 

Dustin Johnson plays wrong ball, gets 2-shot penalty at Sentry TOC | Golf Channel

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Dustin Johnson was penalized two shots for hitting a wrong ball from the penalty area Friday at Kapalua.

 

 

1 hour ago, iacas said:

That's not new though.

As I understand it, the “new rules” issue came up because he didn’t want to check the ball more closely, concerned that he would be penalized if it moved (old rules), and he didn’t know the new rule (7.4) that would protect him. https://www.golfchannel.com/news/dustin-johnson-plays-wrong-ball-gets-2-shot-penalty-sentry-toc

 

Quote

The marshal had it marked, said it went in the hazard right there and there was a ball right there and it was a TaylorMade,” Johnson said. “I just assumed it was mine. And it was way up in there, so I didn't want to move anything.”

Players are now allowed to identify their golf ball in a hazard (now called a penalty area by the USGA) without penalty even if their golf ball moves.

With player complaints about how stupid, etc. the new rules are, things like this (in the player’s favor) don’t tend to get mentioned. 

[DaveP043]

14 hours ago, gbogey said:

That's what I keep thinking about. I'm one who thinks in some cases the pro should have their own rules - the recent local option about OB being an example - but realistically which ones are they unhappy with? The Tour could implement a local rule every week if they wanted to, but do they really want to? Can you imagine the fun Johnny Miller would have had saying, "Justin is using his caddie to line up there. You at home aren't allowed to do that, but these are the best players in the world and they are playing for $1 million, so they are allowed," or "Rickie is taking his time reviewing his enhanced green book.  Amateurs aren't allowed to use those, but even though these are the best players in the world they need that book to take this putt." It's ridiculous which is why the commissioner sent out his letter.  

As long as the Tour chooses to play under the Rules of Golf, they can't make that kind of local rule.  With a few exceptions, they're not allowed to make rules that add penalties where the rules don't include them, and are not allowed to eliminate penalties.  This is from Committee Procedures, Section 8:

Quote

In order to ensure that play is conducted in accordance with the Rules of Golf, a Committee must not use a Local Rule to waive or modify the Rules of Golf simply because it might prefer a Rule to be different.

 

[Vinsk]

So once again we have a tour player not understanding and of course not even knowing the new rules: Web Simpson. 

Golf Channel - Golf Central Blog: Simpson assessed one-stroke penalty, says intent needs to be in rules

Webb Simpson assessed one-stroke penalty, says intent needs to be in rules | Golf Channel

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Webb Simpson was assessed a one-stroke penalty for inadvertently moving his ball on the 14th green on Sunday...

 He stresses that ‘intent’ must be incorporated into the rules. He then proceeds to get the new rule regarding moving a ball while searching for it completely backwards. It wasn’t just a slip because he then states how they ‘reversed’ that rule where now you get a penalty where before you didn’t. Too bad the interviewer couldn’t have politely informed him he was completely wrong. 

[David in FL]

It’s really pretty simple, don’t move your ball other than by making a stroke at it.

 This is one rule that I actually don’t believe should’ve changed. You shouldn’t do it on the green either.  Doing something dumb should have a consequence.  If for no other reason than because it was DUMB!  

[DeadMan]

This has always been a penalty. Shut up, Webb.

[Missouri Swede]

2 hours ago, Vinsk said:

So once again we have a tour player not understanding and of course not even knowing the new rules: Web Simpson. 

Golf Channel - Golf Central Blog: Simpson assessed one-stroke penalty, says intent needs to be in rules

Webb Simpson assessed one-stroke penalty, says intent needs to be in rules | Golf Channel

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Webb Simpson was assessed a one-stroke penalty for inadvertently moving his ball on the 14th green on Sunday...

 He stresses that ‘intent’ must be incorporated into the rules. He then proceeds to get the new rule regarding moving a ball while searching for it completely backwards. It wasn’t just a slip because he then states how they ‘reversed’ that rule where now you get a penalty where before you didn’t. Too bad the interviewer couldn’t have politely informed him he was completely wrong. 

It wasn’t just Simpson who appears to get it backwards. Hoggard implies the same thing; the way he wrote this leads one to think that the addition of a penalty was the change.  (In other words, “that” is ambiguous the way he wrote it.)

Quote

Simpson would not have been penalized if he had inadvertently moved his ball on the green, but because it wasn’t on the putting surface it was a violation. That was a change to the Rules of Golf this year and will only add to the growing discontent PGA Tour players have toward the Rules of Golf.

 

[colin007]

I like this guy

“This is nonsense. Intent is not what we need in the game,” Golfweek columnist Eamon Lynch said. “If I’m caught speeding, I’m not going to plead intent to the cop who pulls me over that I didn’t mean to do it.

“We seem to have this disease right now, where every pro who breaks the rule, thinks the rules needs to be changed. … Suck it up, read the rulebook and just live by the rules.”

[Groucho Valentine]

The thing about these rulings is that they're sometimes applied with no human common sense. Like that driver crack thing the other day. You cant have a club built for the conditions that day in the parking lot or something? 😂 

Considering the support staff and tv cameras at PGA tour events, there should be some kind of bifurcation or some kind of challenge or review process . This draconian stuff gets into the national news and just makes everyone look like buffoons. 

[DaveP043]

23 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

The thing about these rulings is that they're sometimes applied with no human common sense. Like that driver crack thing the other day. You cant have a club built for the conditions that day in the parking lot or something? 😂 

Considering the support staff and tv cameras at PGA tour events, there should be some kind of bifurcation or some kind of challenge or review process . This draconian stuff gets into the national news and just makes everyone look like buffoons. 

There has been a review process.  The new rules have been under development and review for 7 years.  The PGA Tour had a substantial role in developing the rules..  The driver rule, and the ball being moved rule, are unchanged from the previous version.  Human common sense says "Don't do anything that will move your ball, that's been a penalty for as long as you've been alive."  

In my opinion, the only one looking like a buffoon is Simpson.  He should learn the rules before he starts suggesting how to change them.

[boogielicious]

3 hours ago, DeadMan said:

This has always been a penalty. Shut up, Webb.

Agree wholeheartedly. 

[HonestyPolicy]

1 hour ago, colin007 said:

I like this guy

“This is nonsense. Intent is not what we need in the game,” Golfweek columnist Eamon Lynch said. “If I’m caught speeding, I’m not going to plead intent to the cop who pulls me over that I didn’t mean to do it.

“We seem to have this disease right now, where every pro who breaks the rule, thinks the rules needs to be changed. … Suck it up, read the rulebook and just live by the rules.”

Amen!

Intent may have been part of his plan, but it is the execution that goes on the scorecard, not the plan. It is what one does and/or doesn't do that matters, not what one intended to do. Webb should apologize and do it now. I agree it has become way too trendy to complain about the rules when something doesn't work out for somebody.  The only guy Webb has to blame is the guy in the mirror.  

[Missouri Swede]

4 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Like that driver crack thing the other day. You cant have a club built for the conditions that day in the parking lot or something? 😂 

Yes, you can.  He (hv3) could have also had the components brought to him:

 

[iacas]

C'mon Webb. WTF. I don't care if you intended to move your ball, the fact is you did, and you're not allowed to move your ball accidentally off the putting green except in a few situations (like moving a movable obstruction, etc.).

[Augster]

Agree 100% on the Webb thing. 

The ruling bodies try their hardest to get rid of intent. Ideally all the rules would be black or white. Intent would never add in. Did X happen? Yes? Penalty. Simple. 

Golf isn’t a simple sport to write rules for, but the less interpretation of intentions, the better. 

We haven’t been able to accidentally move our ball in play since they first wrote “play it as it lies”. It’s only very recently we can be clumsy around the ball on the green. 

I’ve always advocated for a “tougher” game and easier to interpret rules. Play it as it lies from tee to green with no free relief (except sprinklerheads), and no marking the ball unless asked is as easy as it gets. 

Unfortunately the ruling bodies have given in on the greens due to the DJ thing. Next it’ll be divots. And finally, for Webb, you’ll be allowed to accidentally move your ball in play without penalty. 

The simplicity of putting it on a tee and touching it again as you take it out of the cup gets further and further away.