Rant: Keep you head down is still a popular tip

[cipher]

I just think the use of the head is highly overrated in the golf swing. :)

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by tomvk77

Keeping the head down are basicly the wrong words because if

As a reaction to this most poeple keep their heads still but block

The whole turn towards the target! They swing to much with the arms

Result snap hook or slice

Nope, steady head is a good thing. I can understand the generalized tip of "keep head down" as something that might not work for everyone. For me, i have to keep my head more down, because i look at the ball wrong when i set up (basically my head is to up). But under the original context of the tip, i can say, yea, find what works for you.

Originally Posted by nevets88

I read a couple of other golf forums and this tip still makes the rounds. And if I make my points against it with sound reasoning, I get negative feedback. You know, fine, keep your head down. I hope that works for you. Rant off...

But a steady head is key, it shouldn't move much. Also, it doesn't restrict turn. If a person turns properly the head is more likely to stay steady anyways.

[colin007]

Head down is a good tip for me, my head tends to move back and up on my downswing, I actually have to tell myself to move it slightly down and forward to counteract my suckage...

[shortstop20]

Is what I was quoting. I don't MEAN anything by it. You said it. I referenced the general 'pros' that YOU were discussing. Should be pretty clear. If not, (you seem dense to me) A) Plenty of great players, e.g. 'Pros' like Hogan and Woods, move their heads during the swing to a small degree. B) They can control their head movement because they don't move it a whole lot, overall, they have excellent body control, etc. In other words, they keep it 'Steady, not still'. C) All of their heads point/look DOWN. D) A simple 'keep your head down' is a sound piece of advice for most amateurs, since that thought or feel will inevitably keep the head more steady overall. Easy?

Wow, quite the pompous man, aren't you? If you would prefer, next time I will just assume what you mean instead of asking. I prefer to keep the discussion honest and free of assumptions though.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Nope, steady head is a good thing. I can understand the generalized tip of "keep head down" as something that might not work for everyone. For me, i have to keep my head more down, because i look at the ball wrong when i set up (basically my head is to up). But under the original context of the tip, i can say, yea, find what works for you.

But a steady head is key, it shouldn't move much. Also, it doesn't restrict turn. If a person turns properly the head is more likely to stay steady anyways.

Steady head and centered turn mean something different to me than the traditional, "didn't keep your head down". Usually I see the amateur that says this as someone who comes in very steep, then lifts to avoid the fat shot, then tops it and blames it on their head. If they kept their head down they would have trenched it.

No doubt a steady head is the by product of a centered turn. A proper turn along with correct sequence puts you in the best position for impact. My own challenge is not keeping the head down, but keeping it from sliding forward which tends to have me breakdown at impact. I have to think head back or humping the giraffe (ie hips clearing forward, head back) as my key.

[shortstop20]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

Steady head and centered turn mean something different to me than the traditional, "didn't keep your head down". Usually I see the amateur that says this as someone who comes in very steep, then lifts to avoid the fat shot, then tops it and blames it on their head. If they kept their head down they would have trenched it.

No doubt a steady head is the by product of a centered turn. A proper turn along with correct sequence puts you in the best position for impact. My own challenge is not keeping the head down, but keeping it from sliding forward which tends to have me breakdown at impact. I have to think head back or humping the giraffe (ie hips clearing forward, head back) as my key.

Exactly!

[rehmwa]

Kid at the range was trying to hit his new driver yesterday.

Clearly he was trying to 'keep his head down/still".  The result was a stunted follow through that restricted his finish.  the finish ended up being all arms, stunted rotation, lots of over the top and punching down of the right shoulder.  But his head didn't move from takeaway to finish.

(as a good range companion, I said nothing and left soon after)

The right application of what any coach is trying to accomplish with this comment is the tricky part.  In the case of this kid, he was taking it to the extreme and trying to keep his head still way past the point where he should have let his rotation allow his head to turn for the finish.  There's a lot of good comments already on this thread to that effect.

It's not the advice itself that's the issue, it's whether or not it's presented in a way that doesn't create worse problems.  Or even to be misinterpreted completely to give the wrong results.

I like to think my head is fairly still during my swing right up to the point just after impact where my follow through will cause it to turn up (so it's not in the way of my shoulders.....), not much up and down, maybe a tiny bit of forward during the downswing - for rotation?  it's ok to watch your shot, just don't look up until the rest of your body indicates it's time to do so.  YMMV

[Jeremie Boop]

I changed my swing thought from keeping my head down to keeping my chest at the same angle. This caused me to have a centered turn more than focusing on keeping my head down. Since making this my new central thought I've started striking the ball more consistently, much fewer fat/thin blade/chunk shots. Just focusing on keeping my head down lead to a lot of fat shots or arching my back to counter act straightening my legs.

[sofingaw]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. How much do you think Tiger moves his head? How about Ben Hogan?

Apologies if you weren't attempting to be antagonistic with your bolding and very large font size increase of the portion of my post that seemed to confuse you. If you weren't trying to antagonize, then I made an improper assumption, and I'm sorry. If you were... Then I apologize for nothing.

[twoton]

What frustrates me about that advice is people give it without being asked for advice.

My father-in-law: "You looked up."

Me: "No, I didn't."

Father-in-law's buddy: "You had to.  You looked up."

Me: "I know I didn't look up.  I was staring at the ball the whole time."

Father-in-law: "Nope. You looked up."

Me: "Then what should I do to correct it?"

Father-in-law: "I don't know what to tell ya."

[inthehole]

whats funny is the OP drops a bomb like this & we all rant to the contrary & he doesn't respond to refute any of it.    Definition of a troll ...

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by inthehole

lifting the head through impact (anticipating the ball flight) ...or maybe better yet - taking your eye off the ball is unquestionably, and undeniably the greatest single fault poor golfers commit

No way.  Most people commit faults that lead to bad contact long before impact.  It may involve too much head movement during the backswing and downswing, but the amount of people out there who do everything right up to the moment of impact and then blow it all because they look up is very, very, very, very, very, very small.

Originally Posted by inthehole

... which 100.0% of the time leads to bad contact.

Wrong again.  Have you ever seen David Duval or Annika Sorenstam swing?

Originally Posted by inthehole

... what a silly trollish thread

It's already been said, but, yeah ... no, he's not a troll.  Heck, you are a forum leader with 1500 posts who's been here for 3 years; how do you not recognize nevets as a solid contributor?

[barbm12thtee]

If I'm told I didn't keep my head down I use the information to firm up my back leg and take a nice shoulder turn. But that's just me!

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

No way.  Most people commit faults that lead to bad contact long before impact.  It may involve too much head movement during the backswing and downswing, but the amount of people out there who do everything right up to the moment of impact and then blow it all because they look up is very, very, very, very, very, very small.

Wrong again.  Have you ever seen David Duval or Annika Sorenstam swing?

It's already been said, but, yeah ... no, he's not a troll.  Heck, you are a forum leader with 1500 posts who's been here for 3 years; how do you not recognize nevets as a solid contributor?

Have to agree, there are a lot faults in the swing that will actually cause the head to move than forcing the head to stay still. If you clear up those faults, keeping the head still is much much easier. To say keep the head still is like trying to patch a leak in a pipe with bubble gum

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

No way.  Most people commit faults that lead to bad contact long before impact.  It may involve too much head movement during the backswing and downswing, but the amount of people out there who do everything right up to the moment of impact and then blow it all because they look up is very, very, very, very, very, very small.

Wrong again.  Have you ever seen David Duval or Annika Sorenstam swing?

It's already been said, but, yeah ... no, he's not a troll.  Heck, you are a forum leader with 1500 posts who's been here for 3 years; how do you not recognize nevets as a solid contributor?

Listen, it just irritates the crap out of me when guys post things like this that are so totally to the contrary of common sense.    Keeping the head down (maybe a better definition is NOT prematurely lifting at impact to watch the ball leave the tee) is absolutely paramount.     To say the contrary in "a rant" is trollish to me.    Especially when it is stated as just an opinion an not backed up.     I've seen so many beginners who lift their head to watch the ball go & its disasterous ... nothing good ever results from this - it's simply poor technique.     Sure, better players may be able to get away with it ... but it surely is NOT good practice to be promoted.    Sheesh already ... now I'm ranting.

[shortstop20]

Originally Posted by sofingaw

Apologies if you weren't attempting to be antagonistic with your bolding and very large font size increase of the portion of my post that seemed to confuse you.

If you weren't trying to antagonize, then I made an improper assumption, and I'm sorry.

If you were... Then I apologize for nothing.

I wasn't trying to antagonize. Had I not bolded that portion of the post there would have been no way for you to know what part of your post I was confused about.

I'm a member on alot of forums, from general BS to golf to techie stuff to politics and it bothers the hell out of me when I have to go round and around with people and we waste time and keystrokes because the person doesn't make it clear what they're saying or what they're responding to. Not that I'm immune to it either.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by inthehole

Listen, it just irritates the crap out of me when guys post things like this that are so totally to the contrary of common sense.    Keeping the head down (maybe a better definition is NOT prematurely lifting at impact to watch the ball leave the tee) is absolutely paramount.     To say the contrary in "a rant" is trollish to me.    Especially when it is stated as just an opinion an not backed up.     I've seen so many beginners who lift their head to watch the ball go & its disasterous ... nothing good ever results from this - it's simply poor technique.     Sure, better players may be able to get away with it ... but it surely is NOT good practice to be promoted.    Sheesh already ... now I'm ranting.

They lift their heads quite a bit prior to impact, though, and I think Drew was suggesting that golfers who lift their heads "at impact" (not well before impact) are few and far between.

In 5SK, the head is a reference point for a relatively steady axis to the torso turning (i.e. "shoulders turning"). It's important to note that it's just a reference point.

[nevets88]

OK, let me put this in context. I read on a couple of other forums, people asking for advice, nary a video, just short descriptions and the advice dispensed? You're picking up your head, keep your head down. It's like the knee-jerk pull it out of a hat response. And this gets many upvotes. If this tip worked for you, go with it. But imho, in the aggregate, this does more harm than good as most people keep their head down too long. And the rant was an ostensible one, a more clearly defined one would be I'm tired of one sentence tips disposed improperly from unqualified people that do more harm than good despite well meaning intentions. So my apologies to all - I just want to see people get better.