Jump to content
IGNORED

Poll: Did Ernie Els ground his club in a hazard?

boogielicious

By boogielicious,
in Tour Talk

 Share
Note: This thread is 3329 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

0  

  1. 1. Did Ernie Els ground his club in the hazard at No. 6 at Bay Hill?

    • Yes definitely
      9
    • No he did not
      7
    • The video is inconclusive.
      23

Recommended Posts

  • Moderator
boogielicious Incredible Member

boogielicious

  • Moderator

Below is the video.  What do you think?

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1
1

  • Replies 99
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

David in FL
David in FL

Video is inconclusive and Ernie says he didn't ground the club. Nothing more to say.....

saevel25
saevel25

Another way to put it is, Only 19% said yes, and 81% said No or couldn't tell from the video. Look at how much it sounds less like an accusation if you don't clump together those of us who don't want

turtleback
turtleback

And let us not forget that Ferguson also threw Lee Janzen under the cheating bus.  Making a mistake and suffering the penalty is not cheating.  Particularly when it is viewed by a rules official who a

Golfingdad Incredible Member

Golfingdad

I voted that the video is inconclusive. It left out a long period of indecision between the two shots.  When I turned it on on Saturday he had already played the first shot, and according to the announcers already spoken with a rules official.  Then he took 3 or 4 practice swings on at least two occasions, and in all of them his club disappeared.  It sure LOOKS like he's way down in the grass there, but I guess there is no way to know for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

dkolo Great Member

dkolo

I voted that the video is inconclusive. It left out a long period of indecision between the two shots.  When I turned it on on Saturday he had already played the first shot, and according to the announcers already spoken with a rules official.  Then he took 3 or 4 practice swings on at least two occasions, and in all of them his club disappeared.  It sure LOOKS like he's way down in the grass there, but I guess there is no way to know for sure.

I sort of couldn't tell either, but I'm looking at this Decision

13-4/4  Touching Grass with Club During Practice Swing in Hazard

A player takes a practice swing in a water hazard without grounding his club, but his club touches some long grass. Is there a penalty?

A. No — see Note to Rule 13-4. However, the player must ensure that his actions do not breach Rule 13-2 or constitute testing the condition of the hazard

and without knowing more, my intuition is he's fine? I think it's only a penalty in hazard grass if you let the club rest in it under its own weight.

Dom's Sticks:

Callaway X-24 10.5° Driver, Callaway Big Bertha 15° wood, Callaway XR 19° hybrid, Callaway X-24 24° hybrid, Callaway X-24 5i-9i, PING Glide PW 47°/12°, Cleveland REG 588 52°/08°, Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind 56°/13°, 60°/10°, Odyssey Versa Jailbird putter w/SuperStroke Slim 3.0 grip, Callaway Chev Stand Bag, Titleist Pro-V1x ball

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1

bman1313 Established Member

bman1313

I saw it live and it definitely looked like he pressed down on the club to me. It looked like more than a brush of the top of the grass so I voted yes he grounded his club. It is really tough to see on video but Ernie knows the rules and it is obvious his ball is in the hazard with the red line right there so I would take Ernie's word on this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DrvFrShow Super Member

DrvFrShow

Looks like he should have dropped out of the hazard instead of attempting to hit it the first time.

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1

David in FL Incredible Member

David in FL

Video is inconclusive and Ernie says he didn't ground the club. Nothing more to say.....
  • Upvote 1

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw
Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1

dkolo Great Member

dkolo

Looks like he should have dropped out of the hazard instead of attempting to hit it the first time.

Well it looks like he took his "Should've Taken a Drop Instead of Playing It Like a Nincompoop" penalty (hereinafter "STADIOPILAN") a couple times over, haha.

Dom's Sticks:

Callaway X-24 10.5° Driver, Callaway Big Bertha 15° wood, Callaway XR 19° hybrid, Callaway X-24 24° hybrid, Callaway X-24 5i-9i, PING Glide PW 47°/12°, Cleveland REG 588 52°/08°, Callaway Mack Daddy PM Grind 56°/13°, 60°/10°, Odyssey Versa Jailbird putter w/SuperStroke Slim 3.0 grip, Callaway Chev Stand Bag, Titleist Pro-V1x ball

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1

  • Moderator
billchao Incredible Member

billchao

  • Moderator
Video replay shows the play is inconclusive. Therefore, the ruling on the field stands ;-)

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1
1

jbishop15 Great Member

jbishop15

My first instinct, watching this live, was that he grounded the club. But the video isn't 100% clear, and I just have a hard time imagining that Els would ground his club. He knows he's in a hazard. It's inconclusive for me.

Hunter Bishop

"i was an aspirant once of becoming a flamenco guitarist, but i had an accident with my fingers"

My Bag

Titleist TSI3 | TaylorMade Sim 2 Max 3 Wood | 5 Wood | Edel 3-PW | 52° | 60° | Blade Putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1

David in FL Incredible Member

David in FL

But if this happened to Tiger, oh the shitstorm that would ensue ...

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw
Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1

Golfingdad Incredible Member

Golfingdad

Not from me.

Me neither.  But you KNOW that isn't true for a large group of people out there. :)

Looks like he should have dropped out of the hazard instead of attempting to hit it the first time.

Well it looks like he took his "Should've Taken a Drop Instead of Playing It Like a Nincompoop" penalty (hereinafter "STADIOPILAN") a couple times over, haha.

Actually, you guys bring up a good side question for a rules discussion.  After dumping the second attempt back into the water, why did he choose to go all the way back to the spot of the original shot that entered the hazard?  If I'm reading this correctly, he could still drop right at the point the ball first crossed the hazard line:

26-2 . Ball Played Within Water Hazard

a . Ball Comes to Rest in Same or Another Water Hazard

If a ball played from within a water hazard comes to rest in the same or another water hazard after the stroke , the player may:

(i) proceed under Rule 26-1a . If, after dropping in the hazard , the player elects not to play the dropped ball, he may:

(a) proceed under Rule 26-1b , or if applicable Rule 26-1c , adding the additional penalty of one stroke prescribed by the Rule and using as the reference point the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of this hazard before it came to rest in this hazard ; or

(b) add an additional penalty of one stroke and play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazard was made (see Rule 20-5 ); or

(ii) proceed under Rule 26-1b , or if applicable Rule 26-1c ; or

(iii) under penalty of one stroke , play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazard was made (see Rule 20-5 ).

26-2a(ii) says he can proceed under Rule 26-1b, which says:

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard , keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

Now, I didn't see his original shot, but even if it was a giant pull slice, it still would have crossed into the hazard well closer to the hole than where he went back to, no?

I don't get it.  (Sorry about the formatting - my cutting and pasting really mucked this all up).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

Ernest Jones Incredible Member

Ernest Jones

Oh my goodness gracias - he grounded the club. It's the Jane Blalock controversy all over again!.

Are you always like this?

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1

saevel25 Incredible Member

saevel25

I am 50/50. It is hard to tell if he did, but he didn't make it look clear cut like others do when they hover the club a bit more in those situations. I would give him the benefit of the doubt there.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: :titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1
1
1
1

  • Moderator
boogielicious Incredible Member

boogielicious

  • Author
  • Moderator

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

Not from me.

Me neither.  But you KNOW that isn't true for a large group of people out there. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrvFrShow

Looks like he should have dropped out of the hazard instead of attempting to hit it the first time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkolo

Well it looks like he took his "Should've Taken a Drop Instead of Playing It Like a Nincompoop" penalty (hereinafter "STADIOPILAN") a couple times over, haha.

Actually, you guys bring up a good side question for a rules discussion.  After dumping the second attempt back into the water, why did he choose to go all the way back to the spot of the original shot that entered the hazard?  If I'm reading this correctly, he could still drop right at the point the ball first crossed the hazard line:

26-2. Ball Played Within Water Hazard

a. Ball Comes to Rest in Same or Another Water Hazard

If a ball played from within a water hazard comes to rest in the same or another water hazard after the stroke, the player may:

(i) proceed under Rule 26-1a. If, after dropping in the hazard, the player elects not to play the dropped ball, he may:

(a) proceed under Rule 26-1b, or if applicable Rule 26-1c, adding theadditional penalty of one stroke prescribed by the Rule and using as the reference point the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of thishazard before it came to rest in this hazard; or

(b) add an additional penalty of one stroke and play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazardwas made (see Rule 20-5); or

(ii) proceed under Rule 26-1b, or if applicable Rule 26-1c; or

(iii)under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazard was made (see Rule20-5).

26-2a(ii) says he can proceed under Rule 26-1b, which says:

b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

Now, I didn't see his original shot, but even if it was a giant pull slice, it still would have crossed into the hazard well closer to the hole than where he went back to, no?

I don't get it.  (Sorry about the formatting - my cutting and pasting really mucked this all up).


Excellent question.  He played a ball in the hazard and hit it further in the hazard.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1
1
1

Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

Actually, you guys bring up a good side question for a rules discussion.  After dumping the second attempt back into the water, why did he choose to go all the way back to the spot of the original shot that entered the hazard?  If I'm reading this correctly, he could still drop right at the point the ball first crossed the hazard line:

Actually the dropping reference point for his two club measurement would be the spot where the ball last crossed the margin not first. ;-)

I voted that the video is inconclusive, and I did not watch any golf this weekend, so I don't know where any of his other options might have place him.  Is the entire hazard marked as a lateral, or is part of it a regular water hazard?  And where did the ball last cross the margin into the hazard?

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades
1
1
1
1

Note: This thread is 3329 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up

  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.

  • Posts

    • iacas
      SuperSpeed Sues Stack System for Supposedly Syndicating Successes & Statistics

      By iacas ·

      https://static1.squarespace.com/static/603d222df4a6a57df7ef3e29/t/663cdba5d89e3a1848dab8d1/1715264422455/US_DIS_ILND_1_24cv3749_d34676497e293_COMPLAINT_filed_by_SuperSpeed_Golf_LLC_Jury_Demand.pdf The full complaint is there, but  basically, SuperSpeed (SS*) is claiming the Stack System (SS*) Stack System’s [sic] produces inflated metrics later used to, [sic] mislead and deceive consumers. Stack System’s marketing materials inflate apparent swing speed and distance gains through selective presentment of data without qualification that purported gains are not the result, in whole or part, of its training protocol and products. * Yes, I'm joking about abbreviating both "SS." SuperSpeed wants: A judgment that the Stack System has disseminated false and/or misleading information in violation of federal and Illinois law. The deletion of all false advertising distributed and recall of all packaging containing false advertising and a requirement that Stack System issue notices (written or otherwise) to that effect to all current distributors and retailers of its products and all distributors with whom Stack System has done business in the past eighteen months. Written confirmation within 30 days of an injunction detailing the manner and form in which Stack System has complied. An order that Stack System disseminate corrective advertising informing consumers, the trade, and the public of Stack System’s unlawful conduct. 3X all profits received by Stack System as a result of its unlawful actions. 3X all damages sustained by SuperSpeed (as a result of Stack System’s actions) The cost of the action All reasonable attorney fees All other relief to which SuperSpeed are entitled and such other or additional relief as just and proper. Oy.
    • iacas
      Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

      By iacas ·

      I'm not doing this for the hundred and twentieth time. Sorry in advance, but you get the massively abridged version. Those guys also benefited from the weaker/shallower fields. Also, Watson's career doesn't overlap with Jack's like many think it did. Tom is nearly a decade younger. Jack won only like four majors only after Tom won his first. And Tom won more British Opens than he did all three of the other majors combined, as it was his specialty (not Jack's). Arnie's career similarly doesn't overlap Jack's as much as many think.   Jack would also tell you Tiger was the better golfer.
    • Dr. Manhattan
      Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

      By Dr. Manhattan ·

      Weaker depth of fields for sure. Some of the top level guys with Jack were pretty awesome. Tom Watson had the lead on the 72nd hole of the 2009 British Open, an event where Tiger missed the cut. Old Tom was almost 60 years old. Jack himself at age 58 finished Top 10 at The 1998 Masters and scored better than Tiger, who won The Masters by 12 shots just a year before that.   The success of both Tom & Jack in older age gives some hope that maybe Tiger can find the magic again at some point. He’s still trying to figure out how to build the stamina for 72 holes after the leg injury. I would love to see him jump on the leaderboard in the coming years. I know a lot of people have given up on him at this point, but that was also true from 2014 to 2017 with the back injuries. He had a hell of a resurgence in 2018 & 2019. Would be fun to see it again. 
    • iacas
      The Pro Tours Random Thoughts and Musings Thread

      By iacas ·

      Perceptive rules question by caddie unlocks Tour pro’s ‘dead zone’ relief A perceptive rules question by Xander Schauffele’s caddie, Austin Kaiser, unlocked “dead zone” relief during the Wells Fargo Championship.
    • DaveP043
      The Pro Tours Random Thoughts and Musings Thread

      By DaveP043 ·

      I ran across an interesting new clip, Johnson Wagner went into that spot with the Referee who allowed the relief.  Apparently there was a perfectly reasonable shot to be made, as Johnson clearly demonstrated, so relief from the TIO was perfectly appropriate.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

  I accept
The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...