Mercy Rule?

[bones75]

12 person tournament of friends. Index's range from 6 to 20+. Playing lots of bets, including a team/group bet of evenly balanced teams (good and bad players each team)

One teebox has a forced 150 yd carry to the fairway/"in play" area. One guy is in a bad groove and keeps coming up short.

We usually invoke a "mercy" rule here, but it's largely undefined. We don't cap strokes at double par (per hole), as we want everyone to finish out each hole.

What would you do?

[mcanadiens]

Money is money. He'll have to keep at it until the hole is conceded one way or another.

That's part of the reason I stay away from money games and places with forced carries. 

[David in FL]

What kind of game?  That’s one reason to play match play.  Once someone’s out of the hole and hits their ESC, they pick up and move on.

The only reason to keep banging your head against the wall would be in a pure stroke play format.  Even then I’d tell him to move on with the understanding that he just lost all stroke play bets.

FWIW, someone who can’t carry 150 yards should probably either be playing different tees, or not be playing for money at all.

[Big_in_Belgium]

Strokeplay and money on the line, keep making him hit.

On our golf outings we play stableford, exactly to avoid situations like this. Just pick up if you can't get anymore points on that hole.

[Vinsk]

  On 4/8/2019 at 6:01 PM, David in FL said:

FWIW, someone who can’t carry 150 yards should probably either be playing different tees, or not be playing for money at all.

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This. 

[NM Golf]

  On 4/8/2019 at 5:39 PM, bones75 said:

We usually invoke a "mercy" rule here, but it's largely undefined. We don't cap strokes at double par (per hole), as we want everyone to finish out each hole.

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The people behind you hate you.

  On 4/8/2019 at 6:01 PM, David in FL said:

FWIW, someone who can’t carry 150 yards should probably either be playing different tees, or not be playing for money at all.

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^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

[bones75]

  On 4/8/2019 at 6:01 PM, David in FL said:

What kind of game?  That’s one reason to play match play.  Once someone’s out of the hole and hits their ESC, they pick up and move on.

The only reason to keep banging your head against the wall would be in a pure stroke play format.  Even then I’d tell him to move on with the understanding that he just lost all stroke play bets.

FWIW, someone who can’t carry 150 yards should probably either be playing different tees, or not be playing for money at all.

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Primarily we are just a bunch of friends. Half of us played on the same (non golf) team in college, so we just like everyone involved and we all like to be competitive, relying on index's to make adjustments. We do a ton of diff bets but this year just happened to be daily nassau's and 3 day stroke cumulative play. Tbh, we got tired of ryder cup type of formats over the last few years.

On ezier courses he hits ~100... but he sometimes get in a swing "rut", where he just fats a bunch in a row, and we all just feel bad when it happens to cause him stroke and distance per.

Dang you guys are harsh!  Even though it's a money game, the money is just to make it more fun! 

[Chasing_Bogeys]

  On 4/8/2019 at 5:39 PM, bones75 said:

12 person tournament of friends. Index's range from 6 to 20+. Playing lots of bets, including a team/group bet of evenly balanced teams (good and bad players each team)

One teebox has a forced 150 yd carry to the fairway/"in play" area. One guy is in a bad groove and keeps coming up short.

We usually invoke a "mercy" rule here, but it's largely undefined. We don't cap strokes at double par (per hole), as we want everyone to finish out each hole.

What would you do?

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Cap strokes at double par. 2 balls in the water is enough to sufficiently humiliate someone. If the game is largely for fun with some $ tossed around to make it more interesting then don't crush someone's soul with making them hit into the water over and over and over.

The suggestion that not being able to carry 150yds should mean a different tee or not playing for $ is also spot on. Maybe modify the rules: "For hole X with 150 forced carry, you may hit from the reds with a ? stroke penalty."

But yeah, if it's just for fun and the $ is to spice it up, don't beat down the worst player in the group.

[rehmwa]

If you need to bet to make golf fun, maybe a more enjoyable sport would be a better choice.  I wonder if this guy just bets with the crowd to hang out.  He probably hates betting and just wants to play golf with his friends.

[lastings]

MERCY!   If you make him hit more than once, knowing that he's probably not getting over, then he's not having fun, You're not having fun, and the people behind you are not having fun.  

he's a 20 handicap, and he's already a stroke down the the group.   just drop on the other side.   

This is a question that shouldn't even need to be asked with 20+ handicaps are involved.   

 

Edited April 8, 2019 by lastings

[dennyjones]

If it is really a group of friends, show some mercy.   

[bkuehn1952]

  On 4/8/2019 at 5:39 PM, bones75 said:

We usually invoke a "mercy" rule here, but it's largely undefined. We don't cap strokes at double par (per hole), as we want everyone to finish out each hole.

What would you do?

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In the future my recommendation would be to start using a "maximum score" per hole format.  "10", double par, whatever the group feels is fair.  In this instance I would tell him to take a "10" and move on.

[bones75]

  On 4/8/2019 at 8:16 PM, bkuehn1952 said:

In the future my recommendation would be to start using a "maximum score" per hole format.  "10", double par, whatever the group feels is fair.  In this instance I would tell him to take a "10" and move on.

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Yea, this or double par looks like the way to go if we stick w/ stroke play formats. The higher handicappers typically just play the team bets, no individual bets, but still net scores. All the big $, as you guys prob guessed, is for the better players.

[David in FL]

  On 4/8/2019 at 9:09 PM, bones75 said:

Yea, this or double par looks like the way to go if we stick w/ stroke play formats. The higher handicappers typically just play the team bets, no individual bets, but still net scores. All the big $, as you guys prob guessed, is for the better players.

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A stableford format is a form of net stroke play that also limits the “damage” of a single blowup hole as well as providing an opportunity to pick up and move on in that event.   It might be another option to consider...

[Indy-Archer]

  On 4/8/2019 at 7:54 PM, dennyjones said:

If it is really a group of friends, show some mercy.   

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Thank you!!!

A game between friends is a game between friends, money or not. You're not playing at PGA level; there's nothing that mandates USGA rules. Remember when we were kids playing baseball and we had ghost-runners? I'm pretty sure that MLB doesn't use or allow those. We were having fun and making the most of a situation. 👍

I'm all for precision in holding to the rules when people are really competing, but if they like having the guy there, then let him play (as long as he isn't holding other groups up; that's another issue not brought into the OP). 

[LMoore]

If it’s not a tournament, the USGA handicap system limits the score you can submit on the hole.

0-9 double bogey 

10-19 a seven 

20+ is an eight

To not hold up play, our group would move on.

[Big C]

  On 4/8/2019 at 5:39 PM, bones75 said:

We usually invoke a "mercy" rule here, but it's largely undefined. We don't cap strokes at double par (per hole), as we want everyone to finish out each hole.

 

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Why? I guess I see a flaw in your logic here. You don't want to cap the allowable strokes, but you are willing to consider letting the guy drop across the hazard in violation of the rules because you are feeling some mercy? 

You can't really have it both ways. If the bolded part above is true, then you have to let the guy keeping hitting and hitting until he successfully makes the carry or gives up in a blind fit of rage. Personally, I would just cap the allowable strokes per hole (double par sounds reasonable) and let it be.

[David in FL]

  On 4/8/2019 at 10:12 PM, LMoore said:

If it’s not a tournament, the USGA handicap system limits the score you can submit on the hole.

0-9 double bogey 

10-19 a seven 

20+ is an eight

To not hold up play, our group would move on.

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I’m sure you know, but to clarify, those Equitable Stroke Control limits pertain to posting of handicap scores only.  They have nothing to do with how many strokes can actually be taken on any given hole, whether tournament or not.