Will Jordan Spieth Come Back?

[colin007]

I think he plays too much curve on his ball. But I can be wrong

[Sandy Divot]

7 minutes ago, colin007 said:

I think he plays too much curve on his ball. But I can be wrong

Recently, he doesn't know which way it is going to curve until after he hits it.

[Vinsk]

What I do see from my untrained eye is almost every time JS is in his shot ...he looks indecisive. He’s more fidgety..almost like he’s got too many swing thoughts going on. 

[iacas]

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Not having any information on what he’s been doing makes this difficult.

The question I've posed is somewhat simple: if he's so great on Thu/Fri, and not on Sat/Sun, is it mechanical? Why don't the mechanical issues appear on Thu/Fri?

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

If he began to chase distance, as has been stated but not confirmed, then I would say he’s done something mechanical that screwed up his swing.

He had a very good 2017… which is well after he's been said (in a few hearsay-level posts) to have been "chasing distance." Is there any non-third-party evidence of this? After 2017?

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Jordan has been saying in interviews for at least two years that he’s ‘getting it back.’ And by ‘back’ I can only assume he means making a strong performance and even winning.

Do you expect him to just say "I'm in the weeds, completely lost"?

Are his Thu/Fri rounds evidence of his "getting it back"? (Not that they're awesome, but they're better than average.)

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I don’t think JS’s goal is to be an average PGA Tour player.

Nobody said it was, but the statement that he's below-average doesn't have a lot of merit.

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

He’s not meeting his goals working with CM but I don’t know if he’s worked with anyone else.

What are his goals?

And why would switching to someone he hasn't known since he was 12 help him get to his goals much more quickly and/or easily?

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

To my knowledge JS has done nothing other than beat balls with CM. If that’s true I don’t think it’s what’s best for him.

What do what other people do - including Tony Finau, who can't hold JS's jock when you compare careers - have to do with what Jordan needs to do?

I could cite a number of people who switched things — caddies, equipment, coaches — and went into a slump. Played badly. Etc.

Do you think JS has a sort of Stockholm Syndrome with CM or something?

---

Look, they have plenty of force plate data, 3D data, video, etc. on JS from 2015 to 2017.

If he wanted to get his old swing back, it would be a matter of:

• looking at those things.
• seeing if he can even physically do it.
• practicing that stuff.

If Jordan was "chasing more distance" you'd think his clubhead speed would have gone up at the expense of accuracy. Here are his clubhead speed for driver stats from 2015 to 2020:

• 2015: 112.79 (97/190)
• 2016: 111.86 (108/188)
• 2017: 113.11 (108/194)
• 2018: 113.44 (104/194)
• 2019: 113.5 (109/192)
• 2020: N/A

Sorry, I don't think a < 1 MPH clubhead speed improvement provides any support for the idea that he's chased distance.

[Wanzo]

On 8/10/2020 at 10:14 AM, Vinsk said:

he looks indecisive. He’s more fidgety..almost like he’s got too many swing thoughts going on

haven't followed this topic much, but saw him a couple times at the pga and he had a funky waggle like JT but longer before he swung.  just looks uncomfortable.

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Wanzo

[Chris223]

13 hours ago, Wanzo said:

haven't followed this topic much, but saw him a couple times at the pga and he had a funky waggle like JT but longer before he swung.  just looks uncomfortable.

 

noticed that myself, never seen him do that half takeback like JT before in his routine... then today at Wyndham, wasn't doing it.  His fidgeting does seem to have gotten worse the last couple years, at least he's not grabbing the towel 10,000 times anymore 😂.

 

Curious what someone else with far more knowledge on the golf swing thinks though of the commentators remark today, I believe it was Trevor Immelman and Aaron Oberholser who both agreed that if he just switched to playing a cut off the tee, it would solve a lot of his issues.

[TourSpoon]

At his level, its all between his ears and coming out via his swing. That's an obvious oversimplification of the situation but he just doesn't have that confident swagger thing going on. I watched him hit the one OB where Faldo was questioning his set-up and then yank. I have to think when you lose your confidence to some degree from a 10 to say a 7 you got to get it back up there on that big stage. Seems like any weakness is exploited at that level especially the mental game. I could be totally off base. 

[Vinsk]

Jordan Spieth knows he's lost, but he doesn't know what to do about it

---

Spieth doesn't feel quite right standing over the ball, he says, but that doesn't mean he's going to stop grinding at...

Hey! Here’s an idea....do nothing different at all! Keep your same coach you’ve had since you wore diapers, same ball flight, same clubs...just keep hitting that range with your trusted, antiquated coach and hope something just clicks! Try something totally different? Get a new perspective from another highly accomplished coach? No no....horrible idea. Why would you do that since you’ve made ZERO progress doing what you’ve been doing?  

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

trusted, antiquated coach

You still know roughly nothing about what goes on behind the scenes there.

[Vinsk]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

You still know roughly nothing about what goes on behind the scenes there.

Absolutely true. But what I do know is he’s lost, as stated by he himself. Not working.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Vinsk said:

Absolutely true. But what I do know is he’s lost, as stated by he himself. Not working.

And you blame the instructor.

And I reject that. For all you know, Cameron could be telling him all the exact right things, and it's on Jordan entirely. Change seems good, but change could also coach him right off the Tour (after his status runs out).

You have no idea. Yet you just continue to blame Cameron, calling him "antiquated" and so on.

[Vespidae]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

And you blame the instructor.

And I reject that. For all you know, Cameron could be telling him all the exact right things, and it's on Jordan entirely. Change seems good, but change could also coach him right off the Tour (after his status runs out).

You have no idea. Yet you just continue to blame Cameron, calling him "antiquated" and so on.

I have no idea if Jordan will come back or not. I’m guessing not if you just look at statistics and turnover on Tour.

A good friend of mine played the Tour and has several students on the Tour today. He says all the time, “They won’t listen. It’s hard to stay focused and do the work.”

Who knows? We’re all just guessing.

 

 

 

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, Vespidae said:

We’re all just guessing.

Some more than others, but nobody can know the future.

[Sandy Divot]

9 hours ago, Vespidae said:

I have no idea if Jordan will come back or not. I’m guessing not if you just look at statistics and turnover on Tour.

A good friend of mine played the Tour and has several students on the Tour today. He says all the time, “They won’t listen. It’s hard to stay focused and do the work.”

Who knows? We’re all just guessing.

 

 

 

Maybe his coach needs to fire him, if this is the case. When he was winning, Jordan looked so natural, at least to me, hitting the ball. He just seemed to see the shot, and hit it. He swung so hard on his opening tee shot yesterday, I thought he was going to fall. I don’t know what he and Cam are working on, but it clearly is not working. He looks like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Sandy Divot

[Vinsk]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

And you blame the instructor.

It’s not  so much I’m blaming Cameron. I’m simply saying he’s not the solution. And if he’s telling JS the right stuff and three years of hacking persists then Cameron should tell him to go elsewhere. Not in a feuding manner, in a caring matter. 
I think if we consider the role of a coach it’s reasonable to say Cameron isn’t filling this role effectively based on the results we’re seeing from JS. But I’d like to know what Cameron has suggested because clearly whatever they’ve worked on isn’t fixing this mess.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Vinsk

[boogielicious]

5 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

It’s not  so much I’m blaming Cameron. I’m simply saying he’s not the solution. And if he’s telling JS the right stuff and three years of hacking persists then Cameron should tell him to go elsewhere. Not in a feuding manner, in a caring matter. 
I think if we consider the role of a coach it’s reasonable to say Cameron isn’t filling this role effectively based on the results we’re seeing from JS.

 

I’m putting this far more on JS than the coach. Students need to do the work. Cameron is not like an NFL coach who has to game plan or even like other major sport coaches. He works on a player’s specific swing to make it consistent in competition. For all we know, there is a small fault they are trying correct that is just being stubborn. Or, maybe the competition has just raised up to where JS is just average now. He is not long, so he needs to be accurate. 

I’ve had great teachers in my schooling. Not all the students got an A. Do we replace the teacher because the student didn’t put in the work?

[Yukari]

IMHO, when he was hot, it was his putter.  Seemed like he would make anything he looked at from 10' and beyond.  Close ones, not so much - just average.

Unless he can get that flat stick working again, I doubt he will be what he was.  

[woodzie264]

31 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

It’s not  so much I’m blaming Cameron. I’m simply saying he’s not the solution. And if he’s telling JS the right stuff and three years of hacking persists then Cameron should tell him to go elsewhere. Not in a feuding manner, in a caring matter. 
I think if we consider the role of a coach it’s reasonable to say Cameron isn’t filling this role effectively based on the results we’re seeing from JS. But I’d like to know what Cameron has suggested because clearly whatever they’ve worked on isn’t fixing this mess.

 

Well put. I’d agree with @iacas that it is unlikely a Cameron issue as he was present and obviously helpful through the good years, but I’d also agree with  you, @Vinsk, that if there is a problem (and clearly there is) that Cameron is not able to correct, whether the fault lies with Jordan or himself, as a loving friend/coach, I feel Cameron ought to suggest Jordan get a different perspective. Maybe they’ve already been down that road, I don’t know. But I see both of you as being correct...if that’s possible

18 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I’ve had great teachers in my schooling. Not all the students got an A. Do we replace the teacher because the student didn’t put in the work?

Also a great point

Edited September 18, 2020 by woodzie264