2019 PGA Championship

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, Jay28 said:

Insult to Faldo to compare him to DJ.  Different league.

Not when it’s discussing those major wins. DJ got a bs penalty and proceeded to stripe a 4i to 3’. Faldo whistled and enjoyed the view while his opponents collapsed in profound ways. Choke a 2’ putt? And it wasn’t like Norman was making pars and Faldo was making birdie after birdie. Faldo was winning with pars while Norman was making bogeys and double bogeys. Not much pressure there. Just play a safe over par round for the win. He shot a respectable round in the ‘96 Masters but he didn’t even have to. Norman gave it to him after 9.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, ncates00 said:

This is exactly why I’ve been asking for the mathematical equation for determining who’s the best. BK’s 4 majors (other than Tiger’s Masters this year) are arguably the best wins due to strength of field. Tiger, of who I’m a fanboy, won by landslides but against much lesser fields than BK has. Bob May, Chris DiMarco, Rocco Mediate, etc are good but c’mon. 

They're not "much lesser." "C'mon" yourself.

And there's no "mathematical equation."

[Vinsk]

26 minutes ago, colin007 said:

 

 

I saw that and thought he looked like he left her hanging...and of course the body language on Jenna afterwards....crossed arms, abandonment...little hurt ...lol. 

[leftybutnotPM]

11 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Not when it’s discussing those major wins. DJ got a bs penalty 

You mean grounding his club in a bunker because he is too dumb to read the sheet that said that all sandy areas are to be treated as bunkers? How is that "BS"?

It was totally self inflicted. He even admitted that he hadn't read the sheet and all the talk the week before had been about that very thing.

Edited May 20, 2019 by leftybutnotPM

[billchao]

4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I saw that and thought he looked like he left her hanging...and of course the body language on Jenna afterwards....crossed arms, abandonment...little hurt ...lol. 

Focused on the prize. Nerves of steel. The mental game is strong with this one 😜

[Piz]

Bethpage Black begins with B and ends with K.  It was fairly obvious in retrospect.  

[Groucho Valentine]

I don’t know which was better- Brooksys grit and grind though those last 7 holes to take the win, or those pleasantly tight white pants DJ was wearing. It’s a toss up. 

[ncates00]

18 minutes ago, iacas said:

They're not "much lesser." "C'mon" yourself.

And there's no "mathematical equation."

Haha, those guys = DJ, Rory, Spieth, Tiger, Phil, Molinari, J Rose, etc? Yeah ok. C’mon. I’m not denigrating Tiger’s Accomplishments; I didn’t need the Masters (or any more) for me to believe he’s GOAT. I’m just suggesting that BK’s wins are some of the most impressive against the best fields we’ve seen. 

We’ll have to just disagree for the same reasons we mutually agree Tiger’s competition was greater than Jack’s. You’ve said it yourself stating that today’s athletes are bigger, stronger, better across the board in all sports. I guess except for who Tiger played right? 🤦‍♂️

Edited May 20, 2019 by ncates00

[iacas]

Just now, ncates00 said:

Haha, those guys = DJ, Rory, Spieth, Tiger, Phil, Molinari, J Rose, and those guys? Yeah ok. C’mon. I’m not denigrating Toger’s Accomplishments; I didn’t need the Masters (or any more) for me to believe he’s GOAT. I’m just suggesting that BK’s wins are some of the most impressive against the best fields we’ve seen.

We have other discussions about the strength and depth of fields.

This graphic sums up my beliefs:

1 minute ago, ncates00 said:

We’ll have to just disagree

No thanks.

1 minute ago, ncates00 said:

We’ll have to just disagree for the same reasons we mutually agree Tiger’s competition was greater than Jack’s.

See the graph above. And realize that we're not talking about 40 years and many, many changes.

1 minute ago, ncates00 said:

You’ve said it yourself stating that today’s athletes are bigger, stronger, better across the board in all sports. I guess except for who Tiger played right? 🤦‍♂️

I never contradicted that here.

You said "much" lesser. I disagree - very strongly - with "much."

[Groucho Valentine]

Brooks and his perfect guns are winning major tournaments the same way tiger did 10-15 years ago. 

[HJJ003]

He (and DJ) made it more interesting than it should have been, but yet another repeat major championship for Brooks. Incredible. 

[ncates00]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

We have other discussions about the strength and depth of fields.

This graphic sums up my beliefs:

No thanks.

See the graph above. And realize that we're not talking about 40 years and many, many changes.

I never contradicted that here.

You said "much" lesser. I disagree - very strongly - with "much."

I see your point.  But I think the gap is bigger than you think BECAUSE of Tiger’s impact on the game.  Tiger changed the game and we have guys out there longer, straighter and closer to the hole than ever. And more of them doing it too. BK is dominating these guys and looks very impressive doing it. 

[Vinsk]

14 minutes ago, leftybutnotPM said:

You mean grounding his club in a bunker because he is too dumb to read the sheet that said that all sandy areas are to be treated as bunkers? How is that "BS"?

It was totally self inflicted. He even admitted that he hadn't read the sheet and all the talk the week before had been about that very thing.

Nope. The ‘your ball moved despite you having nothing to do with it..and we’ll tell you about later...just play and think about’ penalty. Look, you’re not gonna win this one. I’m not claiming anything between Faldo and DJ. What is 100% fact is that Faldo had unprecedented luck in having his opponents collapse in a historical manner. He didn’t go out and blow the doors off the course or the field. He played a ho hum round and watched his opponents collapse.  Scott Hoch blows a 2’ putt? Come on. Don’t tell me Faldo earned that one.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Nope. The ‘your ball moved despite you having nothing to do with it..and we’ll tell you about later...just play and think about’ penalty. Look, you’re not gonna win this one. I’m not claiming anything between Faldo and DJ. What is 100% fact is that Faldo had unprecedented luck in having his opponents collapse in a historical manner. He didn’t go out and blow the doors off the course or the field. He played a ho hum round and watched his opponents collapse.  Scott Hoch blows a 2’ putt? Come on. Don’t tell me Faldo earned that one.

Are you suggesting Faldo won six majors without going out and winning ANY of them?

• 71 to win the 1987 British.
• Led by 5, shot 71 to win by 6 at the 1990 British.
• Led by 4, shot 73 to win by 2 at the 1992 British.
• Trailed by 5, shot 65 to win in a playoff at the 1989 Masters.
• Trailed by 3, shot 69 to win in a playoff at the 1990 Masters.
• Trailed by 6, shot 67 to win by 5 at the 1996 Masters. Phil started the day one back of Nick and shot only 72.

[ScouseJohnny]

33 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

I don’t know which was better- Brooksys grit and grind though those last 7 holes to take the win, or those pleasantly tight white pants DJ was wearing. It’s a toss up. 

Interestingly, the "tightness of pants" graph looks different to the strength/depth of field graph @iacas posted in this thread tonight.

From unfortunate, tight, plaid, polyester offerings in the Jack era, through a sort of prolonged "slackening off period" thereafter, and hence, lately, to whatever the hell DJ was strutting around in today.

Modesty, DJ old chap, that's the ticket.

Edited May 20, 2019 by ScouseJohnny

[ChrisP]

Early odds out for US Open. Here’s lowest odds:

Koepka 5/1

Johnson 9/1

Tiger 10/1

Rory 14/1

Spieth 14/1

Rose 16/1

By the way, I do think you'll see a different Tiger at Pebble. He'll have his game face back on. You could feel the letdown coming this past week. I think he'll be hungry again come June.

Edited May 20, 2019 by ChrisP

[brocks]

29 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

I see your point.  But I think the gap is bigger than you think BECAUSE of Tiger’s impact on the game.  Tiger changed the game and we have guys out there longer, straighter and closer to the hole than ever. And more of them doing it too. BK is dominating these guys and looks very impressive doing it. 

The change in the fields between 15-20 years ago and now is incremental.  The players are from the same talent pools.  Yes, they are better on average, but the very best players are always outliers, so it's not likely that, say, the five best players of 2005 are much worse than the five best players of today.

The change between 1965 and 2005 was not incremental; it was a quantum leap.  We went from having only 40-60% of the world's best players in the majors, to having nearly all of them.   We also went from having European fields still feeling the effects of WWII's devastation to being full strength.  It was probably twice as hard to win a major in 2005 than in 1965.  It may or may not be 10% harder today than in 2005.  The fact that a 43-year old golfer with a fused back just won the Masters indicates that 10% may be too generous.

There is another quantum leap coming, when Asian golf reaches its potential, stoked by golf now being an Olympic sport.  Koreans have practically taken over the LPGA.  20 years from now, half of the world's top men golfers may be Asians.

When that happens, I'll acknowledge that it's a new era, with a new talent pool, and that winning 10 majors may be a greater accomplishment than 15 today, or 20 in the Jack era. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by brocks

[Brad G]

2 hours ago, Shindig said:

I feel I should know this, but does the PGA Championship really have the strongest field in golf?  I figure the Masters or U.S. Open would have that distinction.

Definitely not the Masters, they have the weakest field of the 4 majors.