Gary Player Cheating?

[GolfLug]

He seems to clean the sole at 0:12, so seems aware that soil was removed. From my perspective he should have penalized himself for the breach once he figured he shoveled some loose soil out of the way. 

[burr]

2 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Seems like trying to invent a way to penalize somebody. He wasn't in a hazard area and the ball didn't move. So who cares? 

agree 100%  lordy, must be a slow day.  

[Golfingdad]

12 minutes ago, SG11118 said:

This is the last hole of a tournament he won by four strokes.  It doesn't make sense that he was intentionally cheating.  It doesn't seem like it even registered to him that this may have been illegal.  

Right?  I can't imagine even the cheatiest of cheaters would do something so blatant out in the open like that knowing how many eyeballs are on them.  I also think @Big C makes a good point about him not being a lefty.

[burr]

2 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

I care about common sense. Not self righteous zealotry. 

thank you

[DaveP043]

14 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Right?  I can't imagine even the cheatiest of cheaters would do something so blatant out in the open like that knowing how many eyeballs are on them.  I also think @Big C makes a good point about him not being a lefty.

I imagine it was inadvertent, but did he move loose sand or soil which could improve his lie?  If so, he breached the rule in effect at that time, even if it was accidental.  

[Vinsk]

30 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Right?  I can't imagine even the cheatiest of cheaters would do something so blatant out in the open like that knowing how many eyeballs are on them.  I also think @Big C makes a good point about him not being a lefty.

If you want to defend the action and say he didn’t blatantly cheat that’s fine. The point is the action he did in the video is clearly against the rules. Woosnam didn’t purposefully carry an extra driver, DJ didn’t purposefully  ground his club in a bunker ( he didn’t even know he was in a bunker). The list can go on of players who broke a rule without intent and called themselves on it or were called out by an official/player. GP improved  his lie. That’s against the rules. Period. And that’s common sense. 

Does it look done with intent to me? Yes. Either way he performed an action that broke a rule intentionally or not.

[boogielicious]

Isn't he Lexi Thompson's grandpa? 

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Isn't he Lexi Thompson's grandpa? 

I was waiting for this or Cella Choi’s 😂

[ChetlovesMer]

There was an officially standing right there. I would think he would have called it, or at least asked about it. 

[leftybutnotPM]

8 hours ago, krupa said:

No we don't!  What was it!?

Something along the lines of "Gary, we're sick of this shit." when Player improved his lie for the umpteenth time.

7 hours ago, Big C said:

 

And not only did he gain no advantage, there was really no advantage to be gained.

Are you serious? How about the advantage of not having to chop down on the ball and being able to take a smooth backswing. That's why the rule exists.

7 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

I care about common sense. Not self righteous zealotry. 

Meaning rules don't matter for you. Correct? Cheating is OK if "no advantage is gained"? - a notion that makes as much sense as your disregard for the rules.

[leftybutnotPM]

17 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I can’t imagine a rule that would’ve allowed that. Picking up a loose impediment is one thing, but like you said he was in a sandy area and didn’t move a ‘loose impediment’ he just plain made a clearing for his back stroke. I vote he cheated. Maybe a poll?

Please, no.

You'd  have to include options like

• I don't think he even touched the ground on his practice backswing and
• it was a "brain fart" and
• I don't think he meant to do it so it's OK and
• it's a "first world problem,

going by previous discussions where the evidence is staring you in the face, a la Lexi.

[Vinsk]

32 minutes ago, leftybutnotPM said:

Please, no.

You'd  have to include options like

• I don't think he even touched the ground on his practice backswing and
• it was a "brain fart" and
• I don't think he meant to do it so it's OK and
• it's a "first world problem,

going by previous discussions where the evidence is staring you in the face, a la Lexi.

Well the first one would be reserved for utter morons. There’s no question if he touched the ground. Personally  I think he knew he did something wrong and played the whole ‘ can you keep it down for a minute’ to divert attention.

Edited August 16, 2019 by Vinsk

[Lihu]

Who knows if he cheated or not? We all seem to agree he broke the rules for sure. 🧐

[iacas]

9 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

I care about common sense. Not self righteous zealotry. 

No, it's about whether he breached a rule or not.

If you accidentally move your ball in the fairway and it rolls, it's not enough to say "it rolled into a worse spot, and it's unintentional, so just play it." It's a penalty and you have to replace it.

9 hours ago, Big C said:

Don’t underestimate how much your hand eye coordination deteriorates on a lefty shot. I have whiffed balls trying to hit them lefty before. It’s not out of the question to think his practice takeaway might be a bit too low on a opposite handed shot.

That's fine for the "intentional cheating" argument… though at the same time, he's a top golfer, and this is basically the follow-through of a putting stroke, so I still think that action was intentional.

9 hours ago, Big C said:

And not only did he gain no advantage, there was really no advantage to be gained.

That does not compute. He moved a ton of crap behind his ball, letting him get on the back of the ball cleanly.

9 hours ago, Big C said:

Even if he dug a 6 inch trench behind his ball, he still has to make a clean ball first strike, which he did.

It was made a helluva lot easier by moving all the crap out of the way.

7 hours ago, SG11118 said:

This is the last hole of a tournament he won by four strokes.  It doesn't make sense that he was intentionally cheating.  It doesn't seem like it even registered to him that this may have been illegal.  

Maybe he just cheated so often (see again, Tom Watson) that he didn't think anything of it. See again, Lexi Thompson.

2 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

There was an officially standing right there. I would think he would have called it, or at least asked about it. 

Officials like Slugger White rationalize not penalizing guys all the time. See his comments on slow play. See how often PGA Tour players are allowed to get away with some pretty ridiculous things. They know who ultimately signs their paychecks.

And… the guy was facing away, and he may have just been a walking scorer or something.

[Lihu]

10 hours ago, Lihu said:

These players are so good, he definitely made it LOOK like an accident 👀, but was it that or was it on purpose? Was there definitely intent? Or does that not matter?

 

37 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Who knows if he cheated or not? We all seem to agree he broke the rules for sure. 🧐

After watching the video a few more times then hearing him asking people to hold it down makes me think he cheated.

Ironically, the people asked to hold it down were probably expressing their outrage of seeing all that dirt flying back 🤪😂🤪

He should have taken the self imposed penalties then won by a stroke 😜

Edited August 16, 2019 by Lihu

[jlbos83]

I don't see how it's not a breach, though the line between sweeping pebbles out of that area and sand out of that area does get fuzzy at times.  But that looked like a pretty good shovel load.  It sure looked like he did it on purpose, but of course there would be "plausible deniability".  It sure looked like his first "practice swing" as meant to scoop the sand away, interestingly after that, he never hit the ground until the actual swing.  The sad part is, I don't the the sand was really an issue for the swing he was making, there 

[Lihu]

5 minutes ago, jlbos83 said:

I don't see how it's not a breach, though the line between sweeping pebbles out of that area and sand out of that area does get fuzzy at times.  But that looked like a pretty good shovel load.  It sure looked like he did it on purpose, but of course there would be "plausible deniability".  It sure looked like his first "practice swing" as meant to scoop the sand away, interestingly after that, he never hit the ground until the actual swing.  The sad part is, I don't the the sand was really an issue for the swing he was making, there 

Yeah, why people do things like that while under pressure is truly perplexing. I don’t think he even thought the dirt needed moving either but did it “just in case” then after doing it didn’t assess himself the penalty.

My guess is people were gasping at seeing it, whereupon he had the wherewithal to tell them to hold it down, “please”. I guess that’s why the video was in the archives.

Honestly, he could have won it cleaner...

Edited August 16, 2019 by Lihu

[Jay28]

He won by 4 shots.

I hardly think he was cheating with a 4 shot lead on the last hole.